Let’s Talk Love Podcast Episode #6 with Dr. Laura Berman | Transcript

22.04.14

This transcript is from the Let’s Talk Love Podcast, available in our Podcast Feed.

Robin Ducharme | Today on Let's Talk love. I had the pleasure of meeting with sex and relationship therapist Dr. Laura Berman to talk about breakups, the science of attraction and to learn more about her newest book, Quantum Love. I hope you enjoy learning from Laura about how to love better, as much as I do.

Welcome to the Let's Talk Love Podcast, where we flip the script on outdated narratives and cliches about love and relationships. I'm your host, Robin Ducharme, founder of Real Love Ready. This podcast is for anyone who wants to be better at love regardless of relationship status. We'll talk about the intimate connections in our lives and the challenges and complexities inherent in those partnerships. Through are no holds barred interviews with global experts we will gain insight about ourselves and learn new skills to improve our relationships. Because when we learn to love better, we make the world a better place. Are you ready for open and honest conversations about love? Let's get started.

Hello, everyone, and welcome to the let's talk love Podcast. Today I am so very excited to welcome our guest, our esteemed guest, somebody that I look up to who I've been following and learning from, Dr. Laura Berman. Dr. Laura Berman is a leading expert in the field of sex and relationship therapy. She has spent the last several decades helping individuals and couples around the globe, love and be loved better. Both through her New York Times best-selling books, including her latest Quantum Love. I'm gonna I'm going to show you a picture of this beautiful book that I've been enjoying. And an award-winning radio host of her own podcast, The Language of Love. How long have you been running your podcast, Laura?

Dr. Laura Berman | Let's see. Um, well, I've had a podcast for the past four or five years but when I was doing a full-time live radio show syndicated it was a lot harder, you know, the podcast was just kind of an offshoot of the radio show. So I would say I really started the podcast, as it's now Language of Love, probably right around the start of the pandemic when my radio show went kaput.

Robin Ducharme | Yeah.

Dr. Laura Berman | But I've been doing radio shows and podcasts since probably 2007 or 2008.

Robin Ducharme | Yeah. Well, for those of our listeners that have not tuned into The Language of Love, you know, I just know, every time that I listen to you, I learn so much.

Dr. Laura Berman | Aw, thank you.

Robin Ducharme | And it's a lot of the things I just have never heard before. [Both laugh]

Laura | It's not just common sense.

Robin | There are a lot of messages that are shared, but it's said in a different way. And that's really, you know, I just love learning from you. Because I really have, I do gain a lot of new insights when it comes to loving better. And that's really what we do at Real Love Ready. We're bringing together experts that are going to help us to do that. Because what's really more important than that, right?

Laura | Yeah! Nothing. That's what I'm here for too.

Robin | Yeah, what I thought we would do before we dive into talking about your new book because I really do want to spend time going through Quantum Love because it is a powerful, powerful book, with lessons that I really would like to go through and understand better with you. But before we do that I wanted to speak on behalf of our growing single community who are looking for love and talk about a few things. Like the first thing I wanted to talk to you about is breakups.

Laura | Yeah.

Robin | And I heard this, something you talked about when I listened to one of your podcasts was you recommend after a breakup, you recommend being by yourself, half the time you were in the relationship to get solid on your own two feet. And this was like, I was blown away by this. I'm like, "Oh, gosh, I certainly didn't do that after my divorce before meeting my second husband." [laughs]

Laura | Are you still with the second husband?

Robin | Yes. [both laugh]

Laura | Good.

Robin | Well, we got married last August. So it's very new. But can you talk more about this, please Dr. Berman? This principle.

Laura | Yeah, people have a hard time, you know, with this because obviously, when you've been heartbroken, part of the pain is not only getting over the loss of that relationship, and that future and that person, but also all the fear about the future, right? Especially if you've invested a lot of time in that relationship. And, "Oh, I'm always gonna be alone. I'm never gonna find anyone." You know, or if your biological clock is a factor in it. then it's even more complicated. And so people's impulse, both in order to not be with the pain as much as they, you know, would otherwise be in the breakup, or because they feel like they have some clock that's running out. They will jump into another relationship. And the problem with that, and this isn't a hard and fast rule, everybody's different. But in general, the typical problem that evolves from that is that you're just basically carrying the same baggage and wounds from one relationship into the next. And when you take that time, to kind of clear the decks, really do a review of you know, what you've learned from that relationship, what you've learned, that you want more of, or less of, in the future, in a relationship, what you've learned about yourself, the way that your blind spots, your shadows, your, you know, unconscious, things that you maybe do or believe have played a role in the ending of that relationship, or maybe even choosing a partner that couldn't show up for you in the way you deserved, you know, as you spend the time to heal all of that. And you get really solid on your own two feet, and you recognize that you are a whole delicious cake, in and of it yourself and someone else is the delicious icing on that cake. Right?

Robin | Oh, I like that,

Laura | But not the cake itself. When you get to that place of healing, the sky's the limit in terms of the quality partner, and the quality relationship that you can call into your life. But we're always going to be attracted to and attract in people who are at our level of emotional, physical and energetic health.

Robin | Yeah, and one of your quotes that I wrote down here is, "Breakups are an opportunity for upscaling your relationships or trading up." Right?

Laura | Mhmm.

Robin | You have to spend that. And that's what you're saying, you have to spend that time to grow and learn from that time spent with another partner. And if not, you'll end up back with the same person and there is something you've called "repetition compulsion."

Laura | Yeah, that's a psychological term that I reference, it's, you know, what it means basically, is this unconscious compulsion that we all have until we get conscious of it and heal it to resolve the emotional pain of the past, right? So if you were raised in a family with an addict, let's say, and all the pain that came with that, you may say to yourself, I'm never gonna marry an addict, I won't ever you know, I won't marry anyone who does drugs or drinks even they've got to be completely sober. That's how committed I am to not marrying an addict, but you haven't done your healing around codependence, you haven't really resolved or done the healing of the trauma of being raised in that kind of environment and the abandonments and issues that came up out of that. And so what ends up happening is that you meet someone and fall in love with someone who, for instance, doesn't drink, and doesn't do drugs, but then turns out to be a gambling addict, or a sex addict or something else, you know, but it will show up again and again and again. And the reason we do that is because we have this wish, usually unconsciously that this time, I'll get it right. You know, even though consciously, we don't want the addict or the cheater, or the non-committal or the player or whatever, or the bad boy or the bad girl, even though we know we don't want that. That's who we're attracted to. Because that wound is what's driving the bus of our attraction and until we heal that, that's who's in charge.

Robin | Mm-hmm. So just going back to this principle, or this idea that, you know, in general, you recommend staying by yourself, and spending half the time of your relationship. So if you're married 20 years, right?

Laura | [both laugh] No I say half, ideally, half the time you were in the relationship up to four or five years, right? So obviously, if you were married for 20 years, you don't just stay single for 10 years, but maybe four years. And I don't mean that you're not ever supposed to go on a date, and you shouldn't have a boyfriend or girlfriend or a partner. Just like don't move in together, get engaged, get married, like really get yourself to the point of healing. You know, that old adage, "the best way over someone is to get under someone else" may make you feel less of a loser in the short term, but it doesn't solve for what you really want, which is to heal and to call love into your life that is really sustainable and safe and holding and cherishing and great.

Robin | Yeah. Yeah. So let's talk about the science of attraction.

Laura | Yeah.

Robin | Because obviously there's science behind this. And you shared your story of meeting your husband and how, you know, fireworks and you know, you definitely, not even, you actually you didn't use that word, you were just really talking about the pull and how you were definitely...

Laura | And I didn't believe in that, actually, before I met him. I mean, I believed in physical attraction, for sure. I had certainly experienced that many times on both ends of the equation, right? I get, you know, chemical attraction, no problem. But that idea of, you know, that the old-timers will say, "When you know, you just know." I thought that was like some codependent fantasy, and we all just, you know, kind of buy into that, but it's really about a conscious decision. And that is also how I always had operated in love up until that point and the destruction of my first marriage when, you know, I ended up falling through repetition compulsion, falling in love with a cheater and hoping I could reform him because I would be that lovable and wonderful that it would be for me that he would change, right? That's what we do as little repetition composers. But when I met my husband, my second and final husband, for the second time, I hadn't seen him in 30 years, but I knew him as a kid. Our first date, I just knew I was so physically and emotionally and spiritually and intellectually attracted to him on every level, and he was to me and it was so clear that it, we just knew, and I think part of that is your age and stage. He'd been through a divorce, I'd been through a divorce, we both lived a while, we both knew what we wanted. I mean, with age and experience you get, you get a lot clearer on what you want, if you've done the healing, and we both had. But so we just knew, yeah.

Robin | Yeah. You know, I think there's a there's controversy around this discussion of chemistry when you are looking for love. And, you know, there's one school of thought that, yes, chemistry is very important and this is what you're saying. I completely agree with that. And then there's the other school of thought that over time, the chemistry will build this is a great person, you know, they check off all the boxes, right? And it's like, maybe the chemistry will come later. It's like, maybe there's no, there isn't all of that big, big time, "Oh, I'm feeling this on every level, I'm a full Yes, in my body." And over time, I might get there. What do you what would you say about that?

Laura | I would say that's denial. [laughs]

Because here's the thing. You're right that like, the most important thing is not, you know, attraction, but what you want is someone who you are physically and chemically attracted to, and who you have shared vision of the future, shared or compatible values, you know, ability to solve problems, openness to learning, and then you can bring in the attitude toward money, and children and religion and all those other things, right. Like, that's a big package and many, many people find one or the other. I can find someone who I have amazing chemistry with, but we are not at all on the same page emotionally, and they don't intellectually stimulate me and we handle stress totally differently and, you know, but we have amazing sex. That relationship is definitely going to burn out and not going to last, okay? And people become a lot less attractive when you're in an emotional war with them. But a lot of people think they can sustain the opposite, which is, I have everything else it's like check every box on the list, except, you know, I can like gin up the energy a bit, you know, but I'm not really that attracted to them. They don't. But no, no, that's not important because cause that fades. And I say that's a crock. Like first of all, you can have both. Now if you are someone who is extremely like tends toward the physically superficial because of your own wounds and injuries or you have this history of like hooking up with emotionally unavailable supermodels or something, you know, then maybe you want to go on a second or third date with someone who you're not immediately attracted to, right. Like if you tend to use that as a crutch, to avoid intimacy or it's not a good compass for you and it has shown that it's not a good compass for you. Sure, you know, experiment a little, see how far you can go maybe building the kind of physical attraction that comes with emotional intimacy and there is a physical attraction that comes with emotional intimacy. I mean, hell I've worked with couples in arranged marriages who have zero attraction to each other and helped them create some degree of it through their commonality and their common emotional connection. You can definitely do that. But it's a lot of work. And so, you know, and I often say to my husband and about my husband, if I weren't, you know, now we're hitting 20 years, like a lot of what has sustained us through the years and months or weeks that I've wanted to kill him throughout the 20 years, is, you know, it's like what I say to my kids when they were small, you're so lucky you're so cute. I would probably murder you if you weren't, you know,

Robin | [laughs] I like that. Yeah.

Laura | Same thing with my husband, you're so lucky. I'm still, I have no idea why, but I am still so freakin attracted to you. So even when I'm annoyed or pissed off, or bored, or distracted, or all the things that happen in a long-term relationship, I still look at him and I'm like, "ohhh", because I have that chemistry with him.

Robin | Oh, I really like that. So you did mention emotional intelligence. And you've said when looking at the longevity of a relationship, choosing somebody who has high emotional intelligence and is willing to learn and grow, someone who has personal awareness to reboot. Can you talk about that? High emotional intelligence and the personal awareness to reboot?

Laura | Yeah, well, they go hand in hand. And I would say it's 100 times more important than IQ, you know, more important than book intelligence is EQ. And what I mean by EQ is, you are capable of empathy, you are aware of your own emotional landscape, you know what you're feeling, you know, even if you sometimes lose yourself, you can get there, right? You can identify how you're feeling. You're comfortable with feelings. You can be with other people's feelings, you are intuitive, you're open to learning and being wrong. You know, that's someone who's emotionally intelligent. And that's something you learn over time, as you go through periods of difficulties, or stress, or conflict, whatever, start to see how that person moves with your requests and your feedback and arguments you have and stressful times, and you can see what their level of emotional intelligence are. And if they don't have a solid EQ, you're gonna have a hard time sustaining a long-term fulfilling, flexible, growing relationship. You know, a relationship is a living thing. And if you can't both really stay flexible and open to learning and growing and feedback and connection in that way, you're going to really struggle. And you know, the second part of that, what was, the second part? I remember it was connected to the first part, what was the second?

Robin | It was about being able to reboot.

Laura | Oh, yeah. So then if you do have that, right, that's what a real long term relationship is, you're constantly taking your hands off the wheel because you're distracted with kids in life and work and crap, or you're going through a tough time, or you're just going through a period of conflict, or one of you is ill, or any number of things happen, where you get off track. And so a sustainable long term monogamous relationship is a system of recognizing sooner rather than later that you're getting off course and rebooting re, you know, turning the wheel, take putting your hands back on the wheel, and both kind of saying, Okay, we've been disconnected lately, or we've been arguing lately, or we've been stressed lately, and I'm raising the white flag. And, you know, let's just like, clear the field of resentments and you said, I said, we said, you know, this is assuming there haven't been big betrayals. I'm talking about the dumb stuff that couples get into these cycles about right, let's clear the slate, put our hands back on the wheel, and reboot, and it's a constant decision that the two of you need to make, if not daily, on a regular basis.

Robin | Yeah. So I wanted, I just finished your book, Quantum Love yesterday. [Robin laughs] I've been reading it and I just want to say, Laura, this is a fantastic piece of work. I hope you're getting just the most amazing feedback from it. Can you tell us this was your ninth book, right?

Laura | My ninth book. Yeah and my most personal and it's been interesting. You know, people are mixed, because, on the one hand, people don't expect this out of me. They expect sex positions, and you know, lubricant suggestions, all of which I've given in my other books as this goes. I mean, I definitely have a chapter on quantum sex, which people love and is, you know, very explicit advice. But it's a lot about really my journey and what I learned on my journey and in the years leading up to writing this book, around the power that I didn't even know existed before I kind of fell into this through my own life tragedies and journeys and, and realized just in an effort to help, first help my kids and then when I discovered it, I was like, "Hmm, I gotta try this on my guinea pig." Which is my nickname for my husband, because I always try everything on him, often without telling him because that's how I kind of have my blinded study. I don't tell him what I'm doing until after. So I started trying it on him and I was astounded by how well it worked. And then I started teaching couples, and so forth. And basically what it does is it taps into quantum physics, which is a relatively new field of science just over the past 100 years. But there are all of these fascinating studies, and I really tend to geek out on this stuff. So I think Chapter Two: Quantum Physics for Dummies, in the book, you can even skip that chapter if you're not a geek like me, but you can read all the studies and all the science that shows you how this works. But it literally is like a Jedi mind trick for your relationship, it, it basically demonstrates how we are actually capable and in fact, are you always just unconsciously matching, changing our bodies frequency, because our bodies are just energy, pure atomic energy, and that frequency, you know vibrating atoms that are vibrating at different speeds and intensities like volume and station, right? And we're just constantly matching everyone else around us until you start to recognize that you can set the intention, and the frequency and the energetic tone that you want. And everyone will match you, especially in those close love relationships. So that was a huge discovery for me because I realized that I could actually now do couples therapy with one partner, you know?

Robin | [laughs] Oh my goodness, yes!

Laura | One of you starts to change this, the other automatically matches and it's really fascinating.

Robin | I wrote this quote down it's and I wanted to explain from these are words from your book, and it says, "Quantum love starts with you," which is what you're saying. "It's a state, you must move into within yourself first. And once you do you don't need your partner, do anything, change anything or show up in a different way. When you change your partner changes."

Laura | Yes.

Robin | "And it's about harnessing the power of your body's energy and consciously using it to create quantum love."

Laura | Yeah.

Robin | "You can create everything you're looking for in your relationship."

Laura | Yeah, you absolutely can.

Robin | Yes, I have to say. So since I've been reading your book, like I know the principles of this book, because I've been a student of The Secret, since it came out.

Laura | Right. This is the science behind it, it shows you how it works. The problem is The Secret is that they say okay, "Write yourself a check for a million dollars, and a million dollars will come." Right? And then everyone complains when it doesn't come. But what Quantum Love is showing you and there are other books, it's not just mine that is demonstrating it, I'm showing you how to use it in general, but especially in your love life. What what is most important is not only getting clear on your desire, a million dollars, a partner, or whatever, but getting really, really clear in how you want to how you feel if that's what you most desired were here right now, and moving your body, which is the bridge between your soul you know, and your being here, right? Moving your body into that energy of that which you want to create into the feeling that would be created if you had that million dollars or that perfect love or whatever or feelings. And then that is what communicates with the quantum field to manifest because that's the basics of quantum physics for people who don't understand this, is that all possibilities are there for every single thing every millisecond, that nothing is solid even though it seems solid and nothing is separate, even though it seems separate. On an atomic level, right? If you were to look with an atomic microscope, there's no separation between you and me, or me and this screen, or the furniture in the room or anything else. It's all just vibrating atoms, and we're matching each other. And we're actually creating our own reality. That's why quantum physicists when they do experiments, they leave the property and they put it in a vacuum because the unconscious, much less conscious expectations of the scientist doing the experiment on how the experiment is going to turn out will actually affect [laughs] how the experiment turns out.

Robin | Yes.

Laura | How powerful our expectations and intentions are. So what I'm really interested in doing with Quantum Love and in general, is teaching people how to get intentional and clear, rather than let things unconsciously manifest, which we're already doing anyway, everything that's in your life you've manifested, right? How can you do that with more intention and clarity is where it gets really fun. I actually just started a course. I should mention this, if you go to my website, I started a course with one of my besties, who's been a fellow student of this with me for 10 years, we've really been on the journey together, and she has manifested love. You know, that was kind of her story. And I've done the whole quantum love thing. And we're teaching people how to really manifest their deepest desires in love. The first Monday of every month and then midway through the month, we meet for office hours, and it's a beautiful community. So you can learn about that on my website.

Robin | It's your manifestation course?

Laura | Yeah, it's sort of an ongoing manifestation support group. So the first Monday of every month, we meet, teach them a little something, I put someone on the loveseat and take them into their resistance or their blocks, or whatever we're working on. So that the group can see and understand. And then they have homework and we give them reminders throughout the month. And then we meet mid-month, like how are you doing office hours. Troubleshooting. So it's kind of a part support group because they all interact with each other on the private Facebook group and part kind of class.

Robin | Oh, I love that because if you have a community that you can be on the journey with, while you're working through that, that's just even more powerful. Right?

Laura | Yeah, absolutely. That's a big part of it.

Robin | So what would you say to somebody about the law of attraction, manifestation, and quantum love, somebody who's been focused on their desire of partnership, they're actively dating, they have a clear intention of meeting someone. It's not about the list of he has to be tall or she has to look like this, like, you know, you the intention is pretty clear. And you know, all the time goes by, and they just still haven't been able to attract the right partner.

Laura | Yeah.

Robin | Years in, let's say, because we do have a lot of people in our community that are in that boat, right?

Laura | Yeah. And there are so many different ways to answer that. Because yeah, I find is every, every situation is different. Sometimes. It's that. I mean, there's, I won't get into all the different possibilities. Let me try to answer this more generally. So first and foremost, remember what I said about healing, if you've been spending, let's say, the past four years, seeking to manifest love, but you haven't healed from the last relationship. And in fact, one of the ways you've avoided healing is by really focusing, [funny voice] I'm gonna just, I'm just gonna manifest something better, you know, let's just okay, it's over, I'm moving on, I'm going to think positive, I'm going to tap away all my negative feelings. [back to regular voice] And I'm really going to bypass what's happening inside me energetically. That's one of the biggest reasons why manifesting I find doesn't work quote, unquote, it actually is working, but it's working the way it's supposed to, but it's not working the way the individual wants, because they're using this manifesting kind of new spiritual thought stuff as a way to bypass what they really don't want to be with. And that rarely is sustainable, right? So if you just got out of a relationship, or someone cheated on you, or emotionally abused you or physically abused you, or totally disrespected you, or you were seriously abandoned, and now it's brought up all these issues from your childhood when you were abandoned and you're just like, [funny voice] "Nope, I'm just gonna manifest the perfect partner." [back to regular voice] It probably won't work for you until, or you won't, you'll manifest other people who are gonna hurt you and reenact that, because that's the vibration, it doesn't matter what you're consciously doing, you have to do the unconscious healing, and you don't have to go into the unconscious to do the unconscious healing. What I mean by unconscious healing is the healing of that which you don't want to be with. And we all have that. In one way or another. We all have those wounds, those abandonments, those you know, boundary violations, those abuses, those things that happen to us, and they will show up again and again and again in our relationships in the form of toxic relationships or unhealthy relationships or unavailable relationships until we heal it, right? So I would say that's probably the most common thing and then the other and we're skipping over like you said, it's, you know, that you're he has to be six foot two and make this, you know, like, obviously that will stand in the way but the other thing that's stands in the way is getting even if you have a very loosey-goosey flexible I'm focused on what's important list, it's less important to focus on the list and more important to focus on the feelings you would feel if you were waking up next to that person every day, and living in those feelings as much as humanly possible, separate from your dating life, right? So if you want a partner you choose the top three. Maybe it's if I had the perfect partner waking up next to me every day, I would feel the feelings I would most feel in my day-to-day life. My relationship is cherished, playful, sexy, you know, I don't I'm just making those up. Right? Well, so now your job is to move your body energetically, which is what I teach people into the frequencies of those feelings. And as if they're happening right here, right now, that's really the science of this is there's an art to moving your body into that frequency. And then also with intention, not only calling in a potential partner who's going to inspire those feelings in you but any experience because then what happens is, you're now wearing that lens. So you want more playfulness in this next relationship, you're walking by a playground and you're inspired to swing on the swings and run around on the swing set or on your way to work. And some really attractive potential single partner is walking by and sees you and thinks, "Oh, what a cool person playing" and you know, comes over and talks to you, right? Or you'll end up jumping into a class or volunteering somewhere to facilitate another you know, one of these feelings and you'll meet someone who knows someone. It's just that like, attracts like. And as you stay in those frequencies more and more, you then are literally calling in with a loudspeaker experiences and people who match that frequency. So you'll have new friends, you'll have potential dates, you'll have all sorts of experiences that facilitate and cultivate that feeling in you, the more you cultivate that feeling in yourself.

Robin | Yeah. So in the book, you talk about home frequency versus ego frequency.

Laura | Yeah.

Robin | Can you and it's a big, it's a big topic, right? But can you please explain the difference between the two states like, well, you know, with home frequency being coherence? Right?

Laura | Yeah. Your brain and your heart are literally, this is the state you want to get into to manifest, right? Your brain and your heart are literally in electromagnetic coherence, they've been able to show this, and scientists, tons of them, way before me, in all these different ways have been able to quantify the energetic frequency of different emotional states. And so home frequency, I call it home frequency, because that's what we're born in, it just gets conditioned out of us through all the traumas and dramas and unhealthy emotionally immature parents and all the stuff we go through in our lives. But we're born in this, it's natural to us home frequency, that's why I call it home frequency, it's, it will feel natural to you, as you move into it more and more on the sort of quantum love scale, so to speak, I lay out the different frequencies that I didn't establish, you know, many scientists before me have, but if you, you know, let's just say that shame and guilt are the lowest frequency emotions, so anytime it doesn't mean you're not going to spend time in shame and guilt we all do. But that's the lowest frequency emotion. So the more time you spend there, the more experiences people and circumstances you're going to be manifesting that support feelings of shame and guilt. Right? So anytime you can spend sort of the midpoint that would be Ego frequency where we're really in our shadows, so that would be a shame, guilt, fear, anger, apathy lack of forgiveness, you know, resentment, what's the word I'm looking for? You know, as you start to move into even curiosity and openness, you don't have to be swinging from the chandeliers with glee, right? If you can just be in curiosity and openness. That's when

Robin | That is definitely coming out of the ego. You're going, you're moving up the scale.

Laura | Yes! And the highest frequency would be you know, bliss, right, which very few of us are spending, you know, we spent a second there or orgasms maybe put us into that,

Robin | A couple of minutes. Oh, that was, yep. [laughs]

Laura | But for most of us if we can just be in forgiveness and joy and openness and compassion and playfulness. You know, if we can spend time in those higher frequency emotions and move ourselves through meditations that I teach you, and energetically into those states, matching them with visualizations of what we want to create. That's when the magic starts to happen. So if you can spend 51% of the time even for a day or a week, in openness and curiosity up, your entire life will change for the better.

Robin | Oh, it is absolutely true. And I've been practicing and it makes such a difference when you are conscious of your energy, and what you're bringing, what you're bringing to your relationships, and just the spaces you're in the rooms you're walking into, I mean, we can all feel.

Laura | You'll see a totally different reaction from the whole world. And I, you know, as a co- as a recovering codependent, you know, I was always trying to, I wouldn't have called it this now I call it, manipulate, right? Emotionally, through people needing me or through always being there or through fixing, managing, controlling everything so that everything could run smoothly. That is how I got people to toe the line. For me, that was what I learned early in childhood, right? And then even in my relationship, I would do that to a certain extent, and I didn't really have a very good model of kind of divine feminine power. So the only power I, like most women my age understood, was masculine power of being really like, forceful and controlling and, you know, just really in my masculine. Which isn't a bad thing, but that's not who I am and also, my husband is very masculine. So I like to be in my feminine, and he responds better to that. So what this really, this discovery did for me was allow me to understand that I have so much more power than I ever could have, you know, power and control are totally different. But they'll just do whatever I want. I don't even have to say a word. I just -

Robin | When you are, when you're adjusting your energy,

Laura | Yeah, when I want something, I wanted us all to go on a ski trip and no one wanted to. They were just being lazy, there wasn't really a good reason they didn't want to. One of them was anxious, one of them was lazy, one of them just didn't want to deal with that. And they kind of wrote it off. And I didn't argue with them. I just went and manifested, you know, I literally moved myself into the, I did it like I energetically manifested it. And then I got this random email, like a sales email about this cool special in Big Bear this mountain near here that I've never been to. And next thing I know, we're all driving up to Big Bear and having a skiing weekend. You know, that's just how it works. It just shows up for you. And the people show up for you and automatically match you. That's strangers, but especially those people who are really close to you. And I mean, that's another explanation. But there's actually a quantum physics reason, quantum entanglement for why those who are close emotionally actually entrain to one another more strongly. So you have even more energetic influence with those nearest and dearest to you.

Robin | Because you're so much more entangled with them.

Laura | Yeah.

Robin | Yeah. So there are, there's a lot of, there are ways. Quite simple, but very, you have to be very conscious of the ways that you can move from your ego to home zone.

Laura | Yeah.

Robin | So obviously, number one is one of the key commitments in the book, is talking about just fully taking responsibility for your frequency and your energy.

Laura | Yeah, recognizing where you are.

Robin | So the blame, no blame game. Right?

Laura | Yeah, yeah, just recognizing, starting to get conscious of where you are. And monitoring that without judgment is where it starts. And then, you know, I get into all sorts of ways to quote-unquote, shift out of those negative mind spots. But the easiest way to do it, there are kind of two veins happening at once. One is sort of the practical techniques, okay, you wake up and you're in a stressed-out mood, here are ways you can shift your perspective or shift your story or shift your energy. But then there's also just the daily practice, that only takes a few minutes, it's not a big deal, of learning on a regular basis, what it feels like physically, to be in home frequency because there is a physical feeling to it, as well as what it feels like to be an ego frequency because there's a feeling to that too. And as you start to recognize that I'll even have exercises in the book that I call biofeedback, where I move people back and forth between home frequency and ego frequency, so that they can really feel it then what happens is like now when I walk into a room, I can automatically move my body into home frequency without thought. Like, I can just do it in my body without thinking much less with thinking, right? And I can notice "Oh, yeah, I'm definitely, I wasn't aware, but I can feel that constriction that tells me I'm in ego frequency right now. So whatever decision I'm making from ego frequency is a bad one." So if I'm making a decision to respond to an email, or my partner, or a situation, from that place of constriction, it is not going to go well. So let me shift, let me process, let me take a minute to move and come at this from home frequency. And it'll go much better.

Robin | My goodness, I just... as Oprah would say, I had an aha moment when you were just talking! [both laugh] Because really, I was just having a discussion with my husband about our son and his health earlier today. And I literally because I've been practicing so much of this quantum love and it's made a huge influence in my life right now. And I just felt myself constrict and tighten up in my ribcage and I did, I felt it very viscerally. And now what you just said, I should have just stopped the conversation, right? And just said, "Okay, let's just take a couple of minutes, I need to regroup and think about how I feel about this."

Laura | Just say, "I just notice I'm feeling really constricted and I'm in my trigger and so I know I'm not going to think clearly."

Robin | Yes. And that's a very, very clear and very kind way to say like, and actually be very transparent with your partner. "Okay, this is what's going on for me right now. I just need a few minutes."

Laura | Yeah.

Robin | So something else I'd never heard before. I love this analogy about thorns. Oh, this is good. You like, you talked about like I'm a cactus and how... Oh, please, can you please, can you tell us about it?

Laura | This actually is from one of my favorite authors and teachers, this guy named Michael Singer.

Robin | Yes. Oh, I love Michael Singer.

Laura | Yes. And he wrote a book called The Untethered Soul. And I think that's the one where he talks about this, but I've never forgotten it. And it speaks to me so strongly. So I talked about in the book, which is that you know, when you're little, or even sometimes adults, and you touch a cactus, and you go "Ow!", and they're all these thorns, and you pull out all the thorns that you can see, but then later, you go to touch something again, and you still feel the thorns because there are these microscopic, teeny thorns still there, right? From touching the cactus. And the concept is that we are all covered with these invisible emotional thorns that get when they get touched. It's an owie, right, it's a big emotional reaction, or it's a trigger, or it's a regression or something happens. And it can be something as small as someone cutting you off in traffic, to the expression on someone's face, to the way someone speaks to you to the words they, like anything. And so recognizing that we're all covered in these thorns and that that's going to happen is the first thing and the second thing is to recognize when the thorn is there, and kind of excavating it and releasing it a little bit, because 90% of these, you know, just like are rooted in shame, and our thorns are almost always kind of stuck there with shame and fear. And, you know, like, that's how they got stuck there. Either I'm not enough, or my boundaries won't be respected, or it's not safe, or I'm not lovable, you know, that's the core underneath the thorn. So anytime a thorn is touched, it's a younger part of ourselves, that's kind of trying to nudge us out of the driver's seat, and take over. And so my philosophy is not to positive think that little person away, right? Anytime you are willing, this doesn't mean you have to do it in front of a crowd or even in front of another person. But anytime you are willing to bring that which you feel shame, fear, or guilt into the light, it evaporates because 90% of these things, if you were to say them out loud, or a friend were to say them out loud to you, you would say, "Come on, that's crazy. You know, that's not true." Right? And the grown-up you knows that's not true. You know, of course, you're lovable. Of course, you know, like, you're good enough. Of course, I can see you know, but there's this younger part of you that's been triggered. So it's a process of working with those parts of yourself, who still struggle, which are in all of us, who still struggle with worth and setting boundaries and honoring themselves and feeling good enough and feeling worthy enough of love and trusting love and trusting that they are held and that they won't be abandoned, like, those are usually the themes underneath the thorns.

Robin | And you may not know the very root of that thorn.

Laura | Right.

Robin | The unworthy but let's, let's say, you know you're in some sort of conflict with anybody in your life and all of a sudden you feel like "Oh ouch!" like you're triggered or the thorn has been touched. What would you recommend? You say, Okay, I'm feeling very like because what you do say is that your reaction, you know it's a thorn when your reaction is it's like overblown.

Laura | Yeah.

Robin | It's not, it doesn't fit the situation,

Laura | Right and you get really angry or...

Robin | Yeah.

Laura | The punishment doesn't fit the crime or the anger and aggression and fear you feel doesn't fit the little, you know, like the example, I think I give this example in the book, but one that just always pops to my mind, which is such a silly but perfect example is. And I didn't even know this was a thorn but there was a period when my kids were pretty small, where I was traveling a ton. And I would have to take these flights and my husband was able to cover home, I felt I was starting to feel really burnt out and really resentful. And I came home from a really rough trip, snowstorms, flights canceled, you know, one of those horrible, horrible trips, where I finally like, walked up to my front door at you know, it must have been 3 am or something. And the porch lights weren't on. And my husband had always left the porch lights on for me, and I'd always liked it. But when he didn't leave them on, we'd never had an explicit conversation about that. But when he didn't leave it on, I was like "Fuck him, he doesn't even care," you know, and like, "He doesn't even think about the fact that I'm coming home and the fact that I didn't" and you know, on and on and on. And I got myself into such a tizzy, thorn totally touched. And as I sat with it, because I at this point, you know, was starting to become aware of this. I was like, what is it mean? And this is how you excavate the thorns. So what is it? What's the story I'm telling myself when he didn't turn on the lights what does it mean? It means he's not thinking about me, it means he doesn't really care about how hard I'm working and doesn't appreciate me. Right? He doesn't see me. And, and then I was like, Well, okay, so why is this porch light, the symbol of that? And it's, you know, as soon as you ask that question, from a calm, curious, emotionally mature place, emotionally intelligent place, the answer, I was like, oh, like, that was the one thing my parents were not the best, with nurturing at all. But they always left the porch light on, always, like I always knew there was and I remember being a little like, a young teenager. And when I saw that porch light, I was like, Oh, mom and dad are... it was a sense of them being aware of me. And it was all wrapped up in their inadequate nurturing of me that I was then projecting onto my husband. So I go through all this in my head. And then the next morning, I see him. And of course, I have to say something like, "Oh, you didn't..." I was like, Well, I realized, I tell them the whole story, I realized I got pissed, and then I realized it's because of this. And what I really want, I just want to tell you is that like, evidently, the porch light is really important to me. And you just, and he's like, Yeah, I knew that. And I like turning it on for you. But both kids have had the stomach flu for two days and were puking their guts out, you know, and it was everything I could do to get them into bed. And I completely forgot about the porch light, you know, it had nothing to do with not giving a shit the poor guy was, you know, so that's a good example of the way you can kind of work with some of these thorns.

Robin | Excavate a thorn. Yeah. Wow, I love that story. It's beautiful. And you say, "The more you understand where your partner's coming from, the less likely you are to take conflicts with your partner personally. And this has to do with knowing their thorns too."

Laura | Yeah.

Robin | Right? Because we all have them.

Laura | Oh, we all have them. Absolutely.

Robin | And so and it's not something that you, you know, it's obviously not up to you to help excavate your partner's thorns.

Laura | No, unless it's really, you know, inhibiting your, you know, your relationship in some way, right? If they've, you know, if you can work with like, he has my husband as a thorn around me buying him clothes, you know, and I don't like sure there been lots of holidays or lots of times that I don't like his style and I'd love to buy him clothes. But, you know, what's the big deal? I don't buy him clothes, because it was a thing with his mother and whatever. Like we could excavate that and I could require that he go to therapy to get over his phobia of being bought clothes, but like, who cares? You know. So there are a lot of thorns that you just workaround. And then there are other ones that really get in the way of your relationship. And then you've got to really talk about them and try to get them healed.

Robin | Yeah. There were so many big lessons in this book Laura and I, at the end really you go into our soul's contracts which, I believe that yes, we have the people in our lives that come into our lives for a reason. And we're attracting different people for a reason. And our partners are one of those, obviously a huge part of our lives. And accepting that our partner is, can be one of our greatest teachers.

Laura | Yeah, always is. Whether we like it or not. [both laugh]

Robin | You say if you're willing to surrender to the process of quantum love, take responsibility for what you bring to the relationship and harness your energy. Your partner can serve as your greatest teacher. Yeah, helping to usher in a version of you that is healed, loved and whole.

Laura | Yeah, they are gonna trigger you and show you every thorn and their actions will reflect, the things that drive you most crazy about them are the shadow sides of why you fell in love with them. And...

Robin | Can we talk about that before we end the discussion because I want to learn a little bit more about this. You posted about this on Instagram as well about, you know, if something's pissing you off about somebody else...

Laura | Well, so can you tell me one thing that pisses you off about your husband? And I'll do, rather than use myself as an example. tell me one thing.

Robin | Oh, goodness, I can't say this on the air. [laughs]

Laura | You can't?! Do you mean there's nothing you can say? [both laugh]

Robin | Oh he knows this. He knows this already. I feel like he talks way too much sometimes. It's just too much talking.

Laura | Right. Okay. And so when he talks too much, how do you feel?

Robin | I feel that first of all, it's almost, umm, what is the word? First of all, I'm not getting an opportunity to speak.

Laura | So you're being silenced?

Robin | It's not back and forth.

Laura | It's not mutual, right?

Robin | Yep. And sometimes it's just, uh, what is? There's a word I want to find here.

Laura | Insensitive?

Robin Ducharme | It's almost like a violation. It's like, this is too much this, this this?

Laura | Boundaries not respected. Okay, so then, right. So this is the shadow side, right? That he can talk so much that you feel like you're being silenced. Like there isn't a mutuality, of importance of each of your thoughts, that he's not valuing, or welcoming your thoughts, and that he's violating your boundaries with his words and not aware of his audience, right?

Robin | Yes.

Laura | And so that's the shadow side. I can already tell you, that that's a part of why you fell in love with him because he loves to process and you can get into these intellectual conversations.

Robin | [laughs] Yes it's true.

Laura | And he's never met a stranger. And you can take him anywhere and he'll have these great conversations.

Robin | [laughs] Yes!

Laura | And he's really good at making friends. And he's much more of an extrovert than you are, and has a lot more social confidence in many situations than you do. And so there's so many things that attracted you to him because of this. But what we're talking about now is the shadow side. Now, you want to know why you chose him?

Robin | No, I think, Oh, yes. Go ahead. Sorry! [laughs]

Laura | Real question and you don't even have to answer this here if you don't want to, but I'll ask it. Because this is where the answer lies. I can probably even tell you when it started. But who was it in your childhood, not just one person, but in the system or individuals in your family system and caretaking system who silenced you? Who didn't welcome your point of view? Who didn't respect your boundaries? Who didn't hear you, when you try to tell them what was going on who wasn't willing to see your gifts? As much as you tried to get them to. Right? Whoever that person is. That's the thorn that is coming up to be healed. And in part why you chose this man. You chose him in part because of all those great qualities he has, right? That really serve you. They serve you socially. They serve you emotionally. They serve you... He's a great model, just like my husband is an amazing model for self-confidence and boundaries, neither of which I had very much of when I met him, like, I've learned so much from him, right? So you've learned so much from your husband, and that's part of why you were attracted to him. How confident he is socially and how he can talk to anyone and have a fascinating conversation.

Robin | Yep, it's true.

Laura | People love talking to him, right? But then the shadow side is where your soul growth is.

Robin | Mm hmm.

Laura | Right, that's where it's coming up for you to heal two things, one, those early wounds of feeling undervalued, under-heard and not seen or respected. And then the other part is related to that. And this is where your judgment comes in. Because the other thing I talk about in the book, and often online is when you're pointing that finger of blame, it's really about you pointing it at yourself, right? So there's, because of your childhood, there is a part of you that lives in fear that you're talking too much, or that you're boring people or you're not being heard, or that people think you're stupid, you know, criticism is percolating. And so and this isn't the grown-up you, this comes from your childhood, right? So then there's resentment, like not only am I going to project onto you husband, that you're annoying and talk too much, and, and don't give people an opportunity to speak. But I'm so scared I'm that, how could you be that? And I resent the fact that you get to be that and I don't. [laughs] Right? All that is going on at once.

Does that sound true to you?

Robin | Some of it does. Yes. [both laugh]

Laura | Good.

Robin | Oh, that's beautiful. Well, thank you so much, Laura. I really, I just, I would encourage anybody that's listening to read your book. And I really, I really love the fact that you, you lay out the principles, in a simple way for us to understand because it can be kind of complicated, right? Quantum physics. But you make it really easy to apply and understand. And it's a practice as we know, right?

Laura | It is a practice and don't get overwhelmed. If I had to do it over I would probably put chapter two at the end, Quantum Physics for Dummies because people start reading, I like to understand the science before I start learning how to do it but what I have found is that people read that science chapter and they're like, "Oh, no, this is too heavy for me!" So skip over chapter two, if you don't want to know the science behind it or read it last and come to my website, drlauraberman.com and sign up to learn more.

Robin | Okay, wonderful. Well, thank you again, Laura. We'll see you soon!

Laura | All right, thanks.

Robin | Okay. Thank you. Bye, bye.

Laura | Bye.

Robin | Please visit realloveready.com to become a member of our community. Submit your relationship questions for our podcast experts. At reallovereadypodcast@gmail.com We read everything you send. Be sure to rate and review this podcast. Your feedback helps us get you the relationship advice and guidance you need. The Real Love Ready Podcast is recorded and edited by Maia Anstey. Transcriptions by otter.ai and edited by Maia Anstey. We at Real Love Ready, acknowledge and express gratitude for the Coast Salish people, the stewards of the land on which we work and play, and encourage everyone listening to take a moment to acknowledge and express gratitude for those that have stewarded and continue to steward the land that you live on as well.

Transcription by https://otter.ai & edited by Maia Anstey