Let’s Talk Love Podcast Season 5 Episode 9 with Cassindy Chao| Transcript

07.12.23

This transcript is from the Let’s Talk Love Podcast, available in our Podcast Feed.

Robin Ducharme | Today I had so much fun chatting with my friend Cassindy Chao. Cassindy is a highly respected matchmaker, dating coach and author with a passion for helping individuals find meaningful and lasting love. She is so kind and genuine and has the greatest sense of humor. Cassindy is a true ally and coach for her clients looking for love. We talk matchmaking online dating. And about her book that is filled with the rich world of Chinese wisdom. She draws on to help her clients transform their love lives and meet their soulmate. There was also a little bit of matchmaking on the spot. So I had a lot of laughs and I always learn with Cassindy. And I hope you enjoy as well. Welcome to Let's Talk Love the podcast that brings you real talk, fresh ideas and expert insights every week. Our guests are the most trusted voices in love and relationships. And they're here for you with tools, information and friendly advice to help you expand the ways you love, relate and communicate. We tackle the big questions not shying away from the complex, the messy, the awkward and the joyful parts of relationships. I'm your host Robin Ducharme. Now, Let's Talk Love. Hello, everyone, and welcome to Let's Talk Love today. I'm just so excited to be spending this time with my friend because Cassindy Chao. Welcome to the show Cassindy.

Cassindy Chao | Well, thank you, Robin. I'm so excited to spend time with you. I was like so excited. I'm like, all these ideas, and I can't wait to chat with you some more and catch up.

Robin Ducharme | Well, I'm so excited. So you and I met I guess it was last was it last month or the month before we were in California together at Rachel Greenwald's love MBA. And she curated a group of just such amazing people, you among them. And we were all there to talk about matchmaking, and how and dating coaching. And I'm just I was I was there as a learner a listener. Obviously, we're in the love business together, but I'm no longer working as a matchmaker and dating coach. But I think today, what I really wanted to talk about, obviously, is this business of matchmaking and dating coaching, and how this really works, because I think a lot of people don't understand how matchmaking works and what you're doing day to day with people to help them find love. But before we do that, I know we had started our call. And you had asked me well, okay, Robin, are you married? Are you separated? What's going on? I said, Well, I'm going through a divorce. And you had talked about how you had a few matches you were thinking of for me, so I just thought we would go through that just for fun. I love this stuff. I really do.

Cassindy Chao | Well, first of all, I loved meeting you at Rachel's love MBA. And what's always really been special about Rachel's group is that she curates a really special small group of really like minded people who really care about what they do in a very intentional and what I love is also that we all do a lot of self work as well. And I love your own evolution and your own journey. I just think it's really it just makes me just want to get to know you even more like I've been reading yours. Oh, I just really love what you do. And, and I think it's it's like I think I said at the at the love MBA is that people who go into love or matchmaking we are adventurers, we are coming out of the box, we are evolving. And I think it's a really special group of people because as matchmakers are people in the profession, we also take a lot of headspace, right? Our headspace goes into caring about our clients, just like you care about your audience, what they're getting and learning from. And it's very intentional. And I think it's, um, it's really special, because I think it's a sign of a giving person. You know, I think you're a very giving person. I mean, you've put together these amazing conferences I want to go to, because there's so much to learn, right? And it's not just to date, but also to grow as a person. Because I feel like what you put out there influences what you get back. Even if it's not just for dating, it's also just for meeting people and improving your life and making it more colorful. Sorry, I I'm talking too much, but that's

Robin Ducharme | No your not, I love it. I love it. It's all it's all about. It's all about connection. Right. And, and the other thought I was just thinking of is, you know, you are helping, you're introducing people for the intention of them having, you know, a loving partnership. And also it's like, you can you make the introduction, but then it's like how do you sustain that relationship? So you know, I think there's two there's, there's these two sides to it, right? You can introduce the best people, but it's like, how do you actually make that relationship strong and healthy? And and you're guiding people on, on how do they make the right choice on their partner to it's not just this big list that they cut, you're, you're guiding people to look at what's most important.

Cassindy Chao | 100% it's all about, it's kind of, you know, I think what it is that we we, whether it's society, or whether it's your own upbringing, we have lists, right? We have ideas of what we want, right? This is what we want, we're gonna go get it. But sometimes, we don't necessarily think about what it is that we really need. Because we're in this kind of checkbox of achievement, especially for people in the Asian diaspora like me, I'm Asian, our parents have expectations, yes, before the education, but also and then with, with with, you know, relationships. And so we internalize these expectations, but not necessarily realizing what does it really mean for us? Right, I think somebody had said, and a girlfriend of mine just wrote to me the other day, she said, here's a funny bumper sticker that says, I was a gifted and talented student. You know, my parents are proud that I was gifted and talented student. And what I got out of it was a lifetime of anxiety. Right? So yes, she got what her parents wanted, but she didn't get what she wanted. And you know, it's interesting, right? How we would need to think about that more.

Robin | Yeah. And so you tell the story in your book, I loved your book, because Cassindy,

Cassindy | Ah, well, thank you for reading it.

Robin | Ancient Wisdom, Modern Love, Chinese Wisdom for Dating Success. And I wanted to go through the tenants of what you wrote about the wisdom, the Chinese wisdom and how it relates to dating. Can you tell us about the your evolution and how you've got such a fascinating background. I mean, tell us about how you, you know, your career and how you've changed your career path and became a matchmaker and dating concierge? Like how did this and then I also want to talk about how, what we just what we just what we just talked about was how you, when you were dating, you did have this idea of what you thought you wanted in a man and a partner. And you've turned out to be meeting you know, your, your husband, who you're so happy with, but he wasn't what you thought in the beginning, you needed.

Cassindy | Not at all.

Robin | So let's talk about your career path first, which I think it's fascinating.

Cassindy | Ok well, thank you. Thank you, Robin. So it's a journey, right? It was a journey as being in my case, Asian American, or, you know, I'm sure there's a lot of Asian Canadians in your in your viewership. But it's a journey of what our parents expected, and me kind of toeing the line, but then realizing over time, that he just wasn't doing it for me and needing to, to find that path and to lean into honoring my own cultural heritage, and reveling in it in it, you know, so, yeah, I started off, did all the right things, went to a great college, went to Wellesley College was where Hillary Clinton went, did the whole right thing went into banking, because it was financially sound. And I worked at JP Morgan and Goldman Sachs. And I met some great friends there, but I hated it. The hours were terrible. And honestly, I am terrible at finance. I tell people you should never hire me to do finance. Terrible. I and my husband laughed because he said never touch numbers. But people believe that because they saw me as an Asian American number cruncher hard worker, but I was the laziest person at that. And I almost flunked out of college, because I was goofing off, and my goofing off was the Asian Association Blind Date, Semi Formal, and I had so much fun matching over 100 you know, for this great party, it was our biggest fundraiser. I remember loving it, but never thinking this could be a career, right? So I went into banking did the whole thing, but yours always thought about could I do this? And that's kind of how it led to Rachel Rachel's love MBA, and then kind of still kind of very being very different about this, can I really make this into a career, but just realize over time, this is what I really love doing. It just it fascinates me. I love bringing people together. And also was reflected also in my own journey of being kind of high achiever making buckets of money, you know, etc, etc. Until boom, a few things happen. One, my mother got cancer, and it was a ovarian cancer two pretty serious I left Goldman I came back home to take care of her because we were worried we didn't think you know, we just didn't know she did stay on for 10 years which is amazing. But it also made me really kind of do reflection about what really matters in life. Right. You know, the Harvard the you know, the MBA all these fancy fancy checkmarks that people you want to date, are they really going to be there for you? Right,

Robin | Right.

Cassindy | So that's kind of how I found my love. I had been dating until the dating wasn't that, you know, is more like I had to support them too. But I met Fred and I was at a party in Hong Kong. And I'm thinking this guy, no, I, you know, he's not sophisticated. He showed up in sandals and a big Jackie Chan t-shirt. No. Instead, I was flirting with this wonderful Australian Asian gentleman with a sexy accent. I was like, wow, I want to date him. So I completely ignored Fred. But then over time, we became friends. I realized this guy is really nice. And he really makes me feel great and safe. And yes, that's kind of how it started. Yes, you know, and he's been, we've been through thick and thin. You know, we have three children. My oldest is special needs. And Fred's been a gem. You know, he, he's been through everything. And he makes me laugh.

Robin | I think I think that's just beautiful. Absolutely. And it's about how he makes he makes you feel, right.

Cassindy | Yes.

Robin | So tell me how does matchmaking work, tell us about the process that's involved, like somebody if somebody finds you, however, probably a lot of word of mouth, right? Because Cassindy because your you and your team are very successful at what you're doing? So sure, there's a lot of referrals going on there. And how does it work? How do you determine Okay, I'm going to take this client on or, and the dating coaching, how does that both both those elements work?

Cassindy | Okay. So, you know, my, my general niche tends to be, you know, I call it agents and those who love them, but although the database is is not as non Asians, and it's very intentional, and very cerebral, but I feel that the smartest people in the world have the biggest blind spots. So that's my goal was really kind of help work through the blind spots. So depending upon the client, and everybody has their own needs, sometimes I will try to talk to some of their friends and family. And I will do interviews, because we all have a girlfriend or friend that we know that single, but we can't really tell them why they're single because it would hurt our friendship. That's where matchmaker can really come in, you can kind of do very intentionally understand what are the blockers and also because we're trained, we can also provide the feedback to help our clients date so much better, right? So I do that conversation, I also send us would do a mock date, so that way, they can get some feedback. And then I put together a plan, the plan will be, you know, for example, maybe a client, you know, her pickers broken, she keeps on picking the wrong type. And she needs I'm thinking that's the attractive one, or, you know, they want the shiny, shiny person. And so I'll kind of do a test like, look, this is, you said, you wanted to feel good. You said you wanted this, you know, and I've given you some some sample dates, how does this person make you feel, you know, me just kind of map things out, you know, or I have a current client right now who gets very nervous. And she will automatically say, oh, this person doesn't like me because of this. And she finds all these reasons to say no, and I try to calm that person down and just go, look, let's just try to basically like the ally. Right. So matchmaking is ally ship, right ally ship to help her clients day competently, and help them feel safe, because they're going out there on a limb based upon your nudging. And so that's why it's very intentional. And I want my clients to feel safe, because when they feel safe, they just date so much more positively. Right?

Robin | Yes.

Cassindy | And in the dating market is difficult. I mean, there's a lot of ghosting and gas or gaslighting, all sorts of issues that, you know, I'm very cognizant of my clients mental protection, because I don't want it to be hurt, because otherwise they won't date well.

Robin | Right. So I love that you're doing interviews with their your clients, friends and family. Like that is so smart. So what like, for example, like, I'm just thinking about myself, okay, this is I'm going through my second divorce. And I'm thinking, you know, I'm beyond the shame phase because I was, you know, there's a lot of there is there's shame involved with that. I, you know, I thought the first time around was going to be forever. And that didn't turn out. And the second time was way, way shorter. And I realized it's just like, this is I can't I'm not happy and I tried try try it and it didn't work, right. And we're gonna go our separate ways, but still raise our son and that's the way it's gonna be. But I'm like, what do I do next time, right? I must have blind spots. So maybe, maybe not. I think, so So would you recommend that somebody, like, would I make those phone calls and be like, just give it to me, right? Give it to me straight, like I want, I want, you know, my asking my family and friends to be like, What do you think are my blind spots? Would you recommend people do that?

Cassindy | I actually would. But I think you also have to be prepared to hear it, too. So I guess so first of all, I want to say it's your owning your own vulnerabilities. So it's so wonderful that you're doing that, because I think there's no shame at all in divorce. In fact, I think what's wonderful is that you draw the boundary to protect yourself. So I think you need to give yourself kind of a pat on the back, you know, for doing that myself

Robin | Give myself some love, right, rather than giving myself shit.

Cassindy | Yeah, no, no, no, no. And I that's what the I think sometimes we are so hard on ourselves, and the key is, don't because what, because it's not helping you. Right. And, and, okay, so I digress. So, on to advice. So I have a question to you is, in your own heart of hearts, what do you you probably know this in your heart to what do you think your friends would say about your dating habits or your picker?

Robin | I think in the case, with my second marriage, I was ignoring red flags that I could clearly see in the beginning, you know,

Cassindy | Got it.

Robin | And then it just it kind of was like this snowball effect, everything was happening. And I was going along with it. And, you know, I should have paid attention to those things that just weren't weren't aligned with me. In the beginning,

Cassindy | Understood.

Robin | So I could have, I think that's what they would say. Because I was I was voicing it to my, my loved ones going. I'm concerned about this, like, what do you think? And then I'm a problem solver. I'm a communicator. So I would be sitting down. And you know, we're in therapy, like, before we got married, right? So I want to work on this and make sure we can, right, so it's not like it wasn't making the effort. But that's what I would say. It's like being way more discerning and way more aligned with myself and being like, no, that's not okay. And that's not going to change and understanding that I can't change somebody, right. They're showing, he's showing me who he is from the beginning. And I need to really, listen and watch and take that seriously. So that's, that's my path next is like, when I'm looking for a partner. When I'm dating, it's like, you know, if things are big, big red flags into like, just like go the other direction. Do not pass go.

Cassindy | Yeah, what do you think that's partially also your own just wanting to make things work? Like kind of thinking that?

Robin | Yes

Cassindy | You know, I heard that you said that you wanted to, you know that you were there. It sounds like maybe the other person wasn't as committed to that from the get go.

Robin | Yeah.

Cassindy | And that's basically gonna have a drag, right? You got one person, just kind of like, it's like you're pulling dead weight, right? And then it makes you go higher and higher to get the tension of the dead weight. And it's exhausting.

Robin | Yeah,

Cassindy | You can't do that. It's not sustainable.

Robin | So my

Cassindy | Resentful.

Robin | Yeah, so my therapist is like, okay, you know, there's codependency stuff going on here. I'm like, okay, well, I'm gonna work on that, because I don't want to be in a codependent relationship with my my partner, or any relation of codependent any relationship. So it is a learning, right, there's a lot of self reflection so that I can make better choices in the future. Yeah.

Cassindy | No, but I think it's gonna give a feel that it's frustrating, because I think that for a lot of us that are like, are working on our own awareness, we realized that we're imperfect, and so we're working on it. But then there's a group of people who clearly don't think that they need to work on it. And you're just like, oh my gosh, but life would be so much better if you worked on it. But it's like that goes to my phrase is you're playing the flute for the cow.

Robin | Okay, so tell us tell us about these words I love so let's go through your book. And let's talk about some of these ancient Chinese wisdom. I love it. So let's let's talk about that.

Cassindy | So basically what it means is that I use these phrases all the time because these are phrases, these are Chinese phrases that my mom taught me as a kid.

Robin | Yeah

Cassindy | But I find them so effective whenever I talk about dating matchmaking. So in this case, it was it's Dui Niu Tan Qin, which means you're playing the flute for the cow. And in one context, it could be like, oh, you know, you're talking about something, but the person just doesn't get the language. So in this case, you're you're so self aware, you're working on yourself, you're thinking about what you can do better, how can be more present. Meanwhile, the other person is like, you know, that's the cow, right? So you're playing this beautiful music and the cow just doesn't get it. So basically just moo right. But in the book, yes, I these are phrases that are more memorable. Right? And that's that's the whole point. And there's playing the flute for the cow. There's also

Robin | The frog in the well, I like this one because,

Cassindy | Jing Di Zhi Wa, yes. Which is the frog in the well about how people can be so blind, right? You're just looking up and that's the sky. And that's all you see. And that that's what you think I've got a date, all these checkmarks are checkboxes. And it's very limiting. Yes.

Robin | And so how are you? Like, let's get let's, let's talk about the examples that you put in the book. And I know, this is what you're seeing in your practice is people coming in, and this is when I was match making the same thing. It's just, you know, people coming into your office, and they're like, okay, he has to be this tall, make this amount of money educated. He like, tell us about the list that you're that you're seeing in here, and how you're helping people like shift away from that, like, Out of The Frog in the Well.

Cassindy | Yeah,

Robin | Into a bigger perspective.

Cassindy | It absolutely what you saw, and what I see is so much it's so similar. And I think it's very societal about, you know, they, I want somebody who's tall, I want somebody who's smart, because I want to learn from them. I want somebody who's who's financially, you know, wealthy, you know, that can take care of me and me all these things that people want. It's universal, it's almost like it's off of a check checklist. It's off of a socially accepted checklist. But there's nothing in there about, oh, my gosh, this guy makes me laugh. This guy makes me feel safe. This this gentleman, or this partner, you know, is there for my family, you know, a lot of a lot of the really important things get forgotten. And it's fascinating how, you know, we are all kind of programmed into this box, not realizing what's important. And it happens on the other side, too. I have my male clients are like, oh, gotta be hot. Has to be Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. And but meanwhile, it's kind of funny. So in one client, I did get them hot. And he said he was so bored. He said, he didn't know what to say. He was stunned. I'm like, well, how did that make you feel this person? Is this. Is this really making you happy? You feel safe yourself? No, basically, it was very, it felt very transactional.

Robin | Right.

Cassindy | So

Robin | There's so much coaching that goes in, that goes into the business that you're in, I just, I think it's just so awesome. Because you're helping people to open up their perspectives and look for exactly what's most important in a relationship. Right. So what's so this? Oh, sorry, go ahead.

Cassindy | No, no, no, go on. Go on.

Robin | You've got your The next thing is drawing a pancake to satisfy a hunger. Tell us about that?

Cassindy | Hua Bing Chang Ji, so basically, yeah. So basically, we will, we think this is what we want, right? That that unicorn of a man or the hottie of a woman, and it's withdrawing this giant pancake, and you're thinking, Oh, if I have this, I'm going to satisfy my hunger. And it's not it's it's basically it's, it's a full, it's fool's gold, right? It's a dream. But it's really not going to, you know, all it is, is maybe checks a box for your ego, but doesn't really feed your soul. And I think that's something we often forget about that we all have a soul. And we have to nurture that, you know, that you can't just have, let's just say, let's just see if the most beautiful lady sitting there. And it's not going to make you happy. Because over time, it just, you just want to stare at a person all day long, not not have the conversation or the laughter raising a family. All that is messy. Life is messy. Life is not a TV show,

Robin | Right

Cassindy | You want to have the best ally through thick and thin. And that allied doesn't necessarily come in the shape of, of, of a unicorn, that ally might come in the shape of, you know, a bear, or turtle, but somebody who's really, who makes you happy.

Robin | Exactly. I remember when I was in the first course I took with Rachel in Denver, and she said something that stuck with me forever and it was like that your your partner is going to show up in a completely different package than you expect. So don't even try to imagine what they're going to look like. Right? Because there's just endless possibilities and humans we all look different. Right? So putting putting limitations on what this what you're thinking you need in a physical form in your partner is is a fruitless activity. Just Just be open. Right?

Cassindy | Absolutely. I 100% agree with you on that. That's it because it's really what matters. You know, and I think you've hit the hit the nail on the head about what matters is really important is really the heart and the spirit and the person inside versus you just a physical package.

Robin | Yeah. Okay, so let's talk about online dating. And I've written a quote out here about online dating because you say, and this has to do with the, this. This lesson is ancient wisdom around drawing a pancake to satisfy hunger. You say online dating is a minefield of illusion, from filtered pictures and curated profiles to sometimes outright dishonesty, getting to know each other without meeting in person leaves a lot of opportunity for filling in the blanks with your imagination. And I think I think there's there is this going on a lot, right? Because I mean, I've been online dating and so long, and I only did it very, very, very short period of time, years ago to meet my, my second husband. But there is a lot you have to be careful, right. And it's like, the point of doing online dating is to get in person get get in, in real life, meet people in in person, right? If your

Cassindy | Absolutely

Robin | Spending all this time communicating over the apps, you're not like you're going to be creating this illusion of this person that you actually haven't met in person yet.

Cassindy | I 100% agree. Online dating is such a minefield, and it's getting worse because of all the AI and there's there's a lot of fraudsters on there. I have some of my clients come to me with all sorts of stories of being tricked. And you know, and I think what's hard is it's a game, right? The online apps, the way that their business model is to, is to keep people on it. But they don't want you to find somebody fall in love and be off of it. They want to get that monthly income off of everybody. And they have all these games like oh, incognito mode, or, you know, you could send them a gift, you know, the league and they all have, they all have their little gimmicks and tricks. And it is very illusional, because it gets you in almost into like a like a like a video game world. You're like, oh, well, I can keep on playing I can keep on seeing who's behind door number seventy five, right. And so then you almost lose track of what you're there for the first place is really to have to meet your partner. You're not in it just to play the dating game. But people think that it's it's very attractive. It is a video actually isn't it is like a video game. Like it's like the dating video game. But I think we have to always kind of remind ourselves to get out of that prism because our eyes are so focused on it, and back off and go, wait, I just want to meet the person. In person. They go, Yeah, I need to see living and breathing. And I think we often forget that. And it may not be as exciting or as glitzy as with all these pictures floating. But this is real life. You know, you want to have that partner by your side, not on a screen.

Robin | Right? So Cassindy, you are helping people with online dating. Right? I mean, you you would recommend, like I know, you're doing matchmaking but you're also recommending that people online date, right? Because you want to try so many different avenues as as you can to meet your partner. So you don't you also don't want to be stuck on how you meet them. It's like your goal is to meet them. So the how is not that important, but you want to do many different things in order to increase your your chances, right?

Cassindy | Oh, absolutely. 100% You know, unless online dating is ruining your your happiness and your ability to be open. Yes. Be careful about that. Yes, I do. I want to 100% agree that, you know, when you're out dating, you want to have all your avenues open, whether it's being friends and family recommending you know, whether it be online dating, whether it be matchmaking, there's so many different ways to meet people that you really want to have them all working at the same time. Because if you're dating, you're having fun, you know, and you're meeting people and learning from them. You kind of have a very positive vibe. And that's really important. Because, you know, you're gonna find the person, everybody I know who is deliberate about finding a match will find somebody.

Robin | Yes, it's you're putting your focus, you're putting your priorities in that direction, and it will happen. It's just a matter of time. It might be a long road or might be short, but you're gonna get there. I love that.

Cassindy | Exactly. And if you if you if people say there's not going to happen, it won't happen like, oh, there's no good men out there. Well, that's baloney. In fact, I just talked to a friend from Vancouver, who told me specifically that his girlfriend say there's no good women out there. I'm like, Oh my gosh, why is everybody not meeting and I asked him because he's a product manager, smart guy, you know, plays on a on a, like a hockey league. And he's a he's a cutie. I'm like, really? I didn't believe it. He was yeah, and I go why aren't you guys going out? He's like, Well, we just given up we just hang out guys and guys hang out in our

Robin | That's not gonna work out.

Cassindy | Exactly.

Robin | Exactly, if you're hanging around all your girlfriends. You're expecting to meet women like it's just as it doesn't add up, right? It's not doesn't take rocket science. Yeah,

Cassindy | No, exactly.

Robin | So tell me so tell me, how are you setting your clients up to be successful with online dating? Like, we know you need professional or like really good pictures? Right? Can we talk about that? Because Cassindy and then also, how, like, what do you recommend that people put in their profiles to differentiate themselves from other people? Because it's millions of people that are online, right? So you do have to be unique. Would you say?

Cassindy | For sure, it, unique is very important because it's very visual, right? It's all very, it's a visual medium at the end of the day. So for for women and for men, sometimes, I this is what I tell people to put a picture of you with food. Let's just say you're at a bakery, or there's an pies and let's just say you're a baker, whatever it is, because I think people, are you know, we relax when we see yummy stuff. That looks really yummy, that was like cool. You know,

Robin | So the next time I'm in a bakery when they get started to take a picture of me.

Cassindy | Yes, yes, yes. No, I I've done it with cheddar scallion scones. They're one of my first matches and they're married now. You know, I, I love baking cheddar, scallion scones, or biscuits, biscuits, you know, would you like to try some or something like that? So, so it's so corny, but it works. And she's and she's married. She's one of my pandemic weddings, right. Okay. Another woman. I had her stand right behind a bakery. She doesn't bake. But there's all these tarts and pies behind her. Right. And then I had a guy, you know, stand next to a barbecue grill. And it works.

Robin | Yeah

Cassindy | Just like on the opposite side. For example. men as you know, don't you know, they they if a woman has pictures of her with their cats, the guys are two times as likely not to swipe on.

Robin | They're like, No, we just don't put you in your cats on. But I know, but it is like this thing. Yeah. People it's psychological. She's a cat lady. It's like, well, what the heck.

Cassindy | And the reason why, and the reason why no food, which is a really sad story is that my dad got scammed by these Chinese scammers, you know, and the way they scammed him, my dad's 89 was they sent pictures of themselves. Not even them take pictures of a lady with a bunch of food. Oh, my darling, I'm having breakfast. Oh, my darling have a dip. And you know, it clearly got his own defenses down, which is terrible to take a tip from scamming. But might as well learn from everything. And so food is really useful to get people to kind of bring down their defenses.

Robin | Yeah. Okay. So picture with food, what? And then what about other pictures you recommend? And also, what do you recommend that people put in their profiles? like,

Cassindy | Ah, okay, so I think for profile pictures, definitely something that shows your, your face and your eyes because, again, this is a proxy for who you are. So sometimes I'll tell my clients, well, here's a trick, you know, when you are talking, and it's not hard on the screen here, but you really want to look in this in the eyes. So you want to look at the at the camera and just show them your soul in a speak. So that's really important. And also, obviously, your physique. Because if you don't, people are just going to imagine what they can't see. So be open about it. I think people will say, oh, I can't go dating until I lose 10 pounds. Boloney.

Robin | Right

Cassindy | Baloney. Will Affect I think a few more pounds makes us more huggable, more lovable.

Robin | We're all different sizes. And I think that's the other lesson around this is like, not every man or woman is attracted to a thin physique, right? It's like, I don't, I'm not I'm not looking for like a super rockhard body guy. Like, I just want to be attracted to him. And that could be I'm attracted to many, many different types of men. So there you go. Right.

Cassindy | 100% Because, you know, life is a big buffet. Opportunity. And, you know, anyways, yeah, for sure.

Robin | Okay, and then what about the written profile? The written part?

Cassindy | So right, so the written profile, I always say, you know, don't lead with career because career so is so dry. Right? And it's really an opportunity to beg a question, right. And so, you know, what you're really doing on your online profile is really to get the person on the other side, the viewer to ask a question, you know, whether they oh my gosh, that's amazing trip I went on are the special dish I've been making when you think you know, things like that. Anything that begs the question, and avoid the void, the trite, everybody does, like, oh, you know, I enjoy fine wine and travel every says something very generic. And so I think specifics really make a difference. And I always encourage my clients to be as specific as you can. And be and add a little humor humor is quite sexy.

Robin | Yes, so because indeed, I've been starting to write a few things. things for my on my profile when I am ready to do this.

Cassindy | Oh, let me help you.

Robin | Okay, this is good. This is good because I do want to be. Yeah, I want to show like little things. Okay, and you can you I would love your critique on this.

Cassindy | So sure, okay.

Robin | I make my bed every morning. I love okay, and this might be really boring but I love

Cassindy | Make the bed every morning after after blank blank blank.

Robin | After what after waking up?

Cassindy | A little frisky here, right. Sorry.

Robin | Maui and Vernon are two of my happy places. I'm a fraternal twin. I'm a cowgirl at heart.

Cassindy | I like the cowgirl at heart. That one's really good.

Robin | Because it's cuz I think I think these things are like showing, okay, she likes country music. I love spin on my peloton, boot camp workouts, hikes and walks in our gorgeous city and parks with my dog. Is that boring or what? That might be boring. That's really boring.

Cassindy | It's not boring at all. Because Okay, I'm sorry. I'm gonna cut into your podcasts because the guy that I was thinking for you, you had his phrases. I'm just as comfortable comfortable at the yield club in New York as I am in my cowboy boots on my ranch.

Robin | He's got a ranch. This might work Cassindy, you know, it's funny. I told my daughters. I was like, my next partner is going to be a cowboy. I really want him to be a cowboy because I really I'm from Calgary. And like, I'm a cowgirl. I really am. I love country music and I'm like, down to earth down to earth. You know?

Cassindy | Well I have to caveat it's not really a ranch. It's a mean, it's like a mini ranch. And his cattle is not a lot. It's it's a cow. It's one cow. And the reason why it's one cow is because I think his daughter or teenage daughter would have years ago wanted to cow so he got her a cow. And these kids are grown.

Robin | Yeah. So funny.

Cassindy | Still has the cow.

Robin | So funny. Okay, what else? What else would you say about this guy? I do want to hear about him.

Cassindy | Okay, so I so you know today's like with men, sometimes, you know, we sit there the matchmaker was hit work. Oh, we have a formula we match. But sometimes it's baloney. Okay, because sometimes we just go out there and this is out there. And so what I thought was really cute with it. You and him had the same name.

Robin | His name's Robin?

Cassindy | I know! As if that's the reason we spell it dizzy.

Robin | Does he spell it ROBIN?

Cassindy | He doesn't but you don't use it anymore. He he doesn't use it. He changed it. But I so, you know, again, again, this is like I pride myself to be really logical. But this is completely not logical. Okay, somebody's mad because they have the same first day but it was like, oooh, it's a sign. You know, but he's he's a nice guy. Entrepreneurial, kind of a bit quirky. I think quirky, Goofy, kind of sandy blond hair, hazel eyes. You know tall, you know, very goofy. Not to type Goofy, Goofy sounds. He is goofy, quirky, fun, talkative.

Robin | Is he super confident?

Cassindy | Kind of yeah, he sits comfortably in his skin you know, but he also he's very, very smart. But he also just kind of does it. He lives life the way he wants to live it. And that's that, you know, and he's very talented. I mean, he's he was on the cover of magazine for one of his businesses. But he's definitely quirky in the sense that because he's so intelligent. And again, that's be careful. Don't put intelligent men on pedestal because he could also be a jerk. Theoretically. No, but because he's so intelligent, very thoughtful. You know? It's hard to find people that are necessarily great matches because of that.

Robin | Yeah. What else I what really, for me, what really is the most important is obviously my it's like the values and my very top value is my relationships with my children. My family have a very close family. And my friends, I have a lot of dear, dear friends. And I want that in a partner. I want a partner that actually like wants to, he's focused on being a really good person with a beautiful heart. And his relationships are, you know, the most important thing to him. I really feel that way. I that's that has to be aligned.

Cassindy | Your focus. 100% Correct. I do a do you know that he prides himself on being a really good father to his kids and they're really close. And I think just case in point, the guy's got a cow in his yard.

Robin | I love it. I love it. Anyways, we can talk offline about this more and Cassindy we'll keep you posted on everybody and see if I actually do meet this guy later. But I have to go I have to finish my divorce first before I even look for another partner.

Cassindy | Okay. Okay

Robin | First things first.

Cassindy | We can still have, have a call.

Robin | Well you never know.

Cassindy | I know exactly.

Robin | Yeah, I just I really do love you. And I cherish our friendship and I, I just so enjoy,

Cassindy | Me too

Robin | Spending time together and talking about love and the love business and online dating, matchmaking. All of that. It fuels me. So thank you for being with us today. And I hope everybody picks up your book because I really did, like I laughed. And I, I learned a lot and it was great. It's a great little read. So,

Cassindy | Oh well, thank you, Robin, it meant a lot to me to write that because of my own Asian heritage, and how I really wanted to honor that. And also help a lot of, you know, my my brothers and sisters, so to speak date well, you know, and date better because I think we all deserve a great love.

Robin | Yeah. Well, I'm going to close with a blessing for for us and for our listeners. May we keep our hearts and minds open when dating and looking to create meaningful relationships, and may we align our actions with our desires to find beautiful partnerships and create loving relationships. So thank you Cassindy

Cassindy | No, thank you Robin, you're the best.

Robin | Please visit realloveready.com To become a member of our community. Submit your relationship questions for our podcast experts. At Realloveready podcast@gmail.com We read everything you send. Be sure to rate and review this podcast. Your feedback helps us get you the relationship advice and guidance you need. The Real Love Ready podcast is recorded and edited by Maia Anstey. Transcriptions by otter.ai and edited by Maia Anstey. We at Real Love Ready, acknowledge and express gratitude for the Coast Salish people, the stewards of the land on which we work in play, and encourage everyone listening. Take a moment to acknowledge and express gratitude for those that have stewarded and continue to steward the land that you live on as well.