Let’s Talk Love Podcast Season 4 Episode 12 with Dr. Christie Kederian | Transcript

10.08.23

This transcript is from the Let’s Talk Love Podcast, available in our Podcast Feed.

Robin Ducharme | Welcome to Let's Talk Love. Today's episode is for all of our single listeners out there. I had an intriguing conversation with Dr. Christie Kederian. Dr. Christie is an experienced matchmaker, marriage and family therapist. She's worked for eHarmony and now specializes as a date doctor. She helps singles learn and integrate skills and strategy, as well as soulful practices into their dating lives. We talked today about some effective ways to date online, how to use the apps to your benefit, how to approach dating with an open, curious mind, while also being discerning about what you really want in a partnership. I hope this episode gives you new tools to use in your dating journey. Enjoy

Welcome to Let's Talk Love the podcast that brings you real talk fresh ideas and expert insights every week. Our guests are the most trusted voices in love and relationships. And they're here for you with tools, information and friendly advice to help you expand the ways you love, relate and communicate. We tackle the big questions not shying away from the complex, the messy, the awkward and the joyful parts of relationships. I'm your host Robin do sharp. Now. Let's Talk Love. Hello everyone and welcome to Let's Talk love. Today we are going to talk all about love and dating with Dr. Christie Canarian thank you for joining us. Dr. Christie.

Dr. Christie Kederian | Thank you so much for having me, Robin.

Robin Ducharme | We've been following you. And learning from you for a while. Your Instagram is the date Dr. Christie, and I'm just so excited to have you and talk about obviously my favorite thing which is love. And you are a matchmaker and a psychologist first and foremost. And you've you've experienced well, just everything to do with dating and loving and relating. So thank you for being with us today.

Dr. Christie Kederian | Thank you excited to be here.

Robin | So Dr. Christie, tell us about your background of studying psychology and then and how that also moved into you becoming a matchmaker and dating expert.

Dr. Christie | From a really young age, I felt like I was always fascinated by relationships, both pieces of my identity, both my cultural identity as Armenian and my faith background as a Christian are really centered in those relationships. So I feel like relationships and how my family impacted me and my community all really fascinated me throughout growing up. So I studied psychology in undergrad. And then my last year right before I was graduating, I started doing some research in the family studies lab at USC, and took a course on marriage and family therapy. And all of a sudden, everything clicked because it was more about how our relationships really help us develop as humans and who we are and less about how just what's happening internally, it was like, we are kind of the product of the relationships that we have around us. And that just made so much sense to me. So I pursued a career and marriage and family therapy. So all sorts of people, but all in context of the relationships with themselves with others. And then I started working at eHarmony. As a professional matchmaker, we're all therapists there. So we really helping people kind of with the internal stuff, but also actually meeting people. So it was the perfect blend of the inner work and the outer work when I call it the soul work and the strategy. And then I worked there, I will also work for another company that worked on the inside of a lot of match.com dating apps, I kind of learned all about the dating app world. At the same time, I was also single and dating and the first time I downloaded a dating app was the night before I started eHarmony because I was like, oh, I should probably know what I'm doing. Start working right. So I kind of went through this parallel process with so many of my clients and learned so much personally. So now in our business and company, I feel like my personal experience as well as my professional experience and research really found this beautiful intersection. And I felt really empowered, wanting to help women especially but we work with all people really figure out what those blocks are to why they're not having success and the relationships where most of the people we work with are very successful in other areas of their lives. They have a fulfilling successful career. They have great friendships, they have travel, they have all these things they love, but for some reason they're not translating into this area. So that's where we really feel passionate and call to deal and so that's a little bit of my story.

Robin | Oh, excellent. So I would like to know more about your experience at eHarmony How were you working as a matchmaker there? And so were you helping build the apps? And or actually how, like the matching? Because there is, obviously there's a lot of science that goes into the apps. Right?

Dr. Christie | Exactly. So when I worked there, they actually had a totally separate program within eHarmony. That was people facing. So we actually worked with clients that wanted kind of more of that personal touch experience. So we use the algorithm, we use their compatible matches, but we went on the dates, essentially, for them virtually or in person. And as therapists, we were able to really identify, you know, what are some of these red flags? Are you really compatible with this person, and we were able to get to our clients and help kind of coach them along the process. So we would connect them with people that were already in, you know, they're compatible matches. But this was a way for them outsourcing the dating process, essentially, to experts that were able to kind of ask some of those questions like, you don't necessarily always feel comfortable asking, but are important. And then also, after they go on the dates, we did what's called post date feedback. So we're able to come back to the clients in real time and say, Hey, like, you think you're coming across this way to this person, but actually, this is the experience they had of you. And that's just so valuable, because oftentimes, we don't know why we get ghosted or we don't know why things are happening. And then getting that insight is so so valuable to so it was kind of for people that wanted that more of a personal touch a human experience with an expert.

Robin | Yes. Oh, my gosh, well, in 2000, I want to say 2012. I, I studied with, I became a matchmaker. So I am a certified matchmaker. And I did that for a number of years. That is and also worked as a dating coach. And that is one of the I think, having that feedback piece that a lot of us don't, we don't have that opportunity, right to see or hear from the other side. How did I or you show up on that date? Because that's just, that's incredible. They were able they were able to do that for people, you learn a lot totally. Yeah.

Dr. Christie | And it's brave of you so many of our clients that want to put themselves in that position. Because sometimes we're so afraid of that honest feedback, whether we're in relationships or dating, like, we don't really want to hear if there is anything constructive or potentially useful. And so I think that it's bringing that insight is so powerful, because that could be the catalyst to really finding love, if you're willing to say, hey, like, how am I being perceived? What do I actually need to work on? That's one of the things that I think is missing when people are dating is the understanding that dating is really a skill. And there's nothing wrong with you

Robin | Right

Dr. Christie | Like, not like, you know, undesirable, we make all these stories up. But really, you just have to learn how to date and be yourself and be your best self on a date. And it's a skill like anything else. And so I feel really passionate about empowering people with that, and not them internalizing it, because that's what we do. We say, Oh, well, it didn't work out. So I must not be pretty enough or thin enough or whatever. But you're making this whole narrative up, that's probably not true. Maybe you just didn't ask the right questions, or you came off kind of guarded and they thought you weren't interested or whatever. And so it can be really freeing for a lot of people to get that feedback.

Robin | Oh, I completely agree. I think about when you said that about skill. It's the same thing about relationships, like we don't learn how to be in, in intimate partnerships. And there's, there's so much that like, beyond our parents, let's say our primary caregivers, right. And a lot of us didn't come from primary caregivers that had really solid, beautiful loving relationships. So if you're if you're modeling isn't, and even that you may not have a lot of those skills, and it is it is there's so many skills, communication skills, conflict management skills, vulnerability, like all these things can be learned. So

Dr. Christie | Exactly.

Robin | Yeah.

Dr. Christie | Oh, no, I just can say that analogy uses, like you're taking a class, like you're wanting a PhD in chemistry, but all your classes are in biology. The model you saw was not the right fit, you're kind of expecting a degree in something that you're not studying. So you have to just know that you came in with these lessons that you might not want to mirror but that's all you know, when it comes to relationships. So it's about relearning that and figuring out okay, what do I need to unlearn so that I can build a relationship that I do desire?

Robin | Right. And so you touched on this when I'm just a little bit earlier about how you're when you're looking for a living partnership. There's the soul full piece and the strategy work. So can you break that down for us and how you Coach on those two pieces?

Dr. Christie | Sure. So oftentimes when people come to us, they have already done a lot of inner work. So they say, you know, well, I'm in therapy, so I shouldn't really need to learn about dating. And I am a therapist, or I think therapy is amazing. And I think sometimes people can sometimes hide behind therapy and not put themselves out there because they think they need to, quote unquote, fully heal whatever that means. Like, I'm not ready for a relationship. But I really believe that healing happens in the context of relationships. So oftentimes, you know, Rom Das has this quote that it's like, if you want to really be enlightened, go spend a week with your family, right? So when you're at work, and you have nobody triggering you, then oh, sure I'm and we see this a lot. When we do attachment work. It's like, oh, I'm secure. For sure. I'm secure attachment, but I haven't dated in 10 years. So I haven't given myself the opportunity to have that anxiety or that avoidant show up. So what I believe is really being supported in your healing journey, but also putting in the work and doing putting yourself out there, so to speak. So the soul work really has to do with understanding who you are as a dater. A lot of people know about themselves in various ways, but they don't really understand how those things translate into the context of dating. So what we do is create what we call a dating blueprint, we help them understand their attachment when it comes to being a single person and trying to connect with people. And then we also go into their personality, I use the Enneagram. And that combination helps give us a really customized approach to like you should be dating a certain way, not necessarily how your friend is dating, not necessarily how you've done in the past. But because of your unique wiring, your upbringing, all those things, you have a direct path, you should be at a certain dating app, you should be going about it in a certain way. So that it's aligned for you. A lot of people think that dating or online dating isn't right for them, because they're going about it in a way that is completely counterintuitive to who they are, how they're wired, their experiences, all of that. So we really help them kind of unravel some of those things and have that awareness, so then they can move into the action piece.

Robin | Oh, I love that. So people are you're helping people build you called a dating blueprint. And they're doing a personality test. That's those are two of the things that you're like, I really appreciate that approach that it is customizable, like, not one size fits all. So if you're more of an introvert, just it's all it all has to do with strategy and skills, and there's nothing. And I think also, this, this idea that you know, this person is going to just appear in your life, I don't know where like, we like to believe in fairy tales. Like that's just not that's not happening. And it's okay to have strategy towards something that you really want your life with just the partnership. It doesn't take away from it doesn't have to take away from the beauty of it. Right having strategy. So it's a mindset shift that

Dr. Christie | people get really caught up in the story of how they meet somebody when the reality is, it's you want to you want the ending of the story to be a lot better than the beginning. And I think that's because of romantic comedies Hallmark kind of I love a good Hallmark movie, but it sets us up to think that the person we just randomly run into a coffee shop is going to be compatible with us. And when we look at the research, which is what I really ground, all of my work in only 8% of people that meet in a bar end up in a long term relationship. So by just kind of showing up somewhere, yeah, you might meet somebody, you might even be in a relationship with them. But is that the compatible person for you? No, probably not. And that's where we end up in relationships that aren't satisfying, because we're not doing that work ahead of time.

Robin | Yes. So I heard I heard you say that 78% Is it 70%? Now are people are meeting online?

Dr. Christie | Yeah. Oh, after 2021 meeting online was an is now the number one way to meet someone. And it surpassed what previously was the number one ways to meeting through friends, which I also love that like friends introducing. But that's now the second way and the number one way is now meeting through an online dating app.

Robin | Wow. So tell us about your experience meeting your husband online. I would love to hear the strategy you took Dr. Christie. So first of all, like What app are you on? Because I know there's not only one app I didn't like I'm not here to narrow down apps. But because there's so many. But also what was your strategy? Like how did you write your profile? And how did how did this all I know you knew your husband from when you were like you've had some history there from when you were really really young. But how you met I would love to hear that because obviously you're an expert in this and you had a strategy.

Dr. Christie | Yeah, totally. So we initially met when we were kids actually in vacation Bible School, I was five, he's, and no, that was that our parents knew each other from there. So that's the way that we do. I don't really remember him, but we both moved away, went off to college, etc, and moved back to our hometown. And so what the funny thing that I always mention is that if we didn't have the dating apps, we probably crossed each other. I mean, we lived in the same town probably went to the same coffee shop, I wrote my whole dissertation at the coffee shop that was down the street from where I live. So I mean, we could have met in that way at any time. But the dating app really put us in front of each other. So we actually met on Bumble, which I love all the dating apps and help people kind of navigate which one's the right one for them. But I personally loved that app, especially at the time with my strategy, because I felt like, I was really busy, I was tempted to put off dating because I was middle of my Doctorate. And I'm like, Okay, I was coming out of a relationship situation ship. And I was like, I don't really have time to date. But some friends said, okay, this could be kind of a positive thing for you to get you to your, your dissertation defense, just a few months later, I'm like, you know, yeah, like, I'll have something positive to look forward to in my break. So what the , the approach that I love that bubble took was it wasn't, you know, waste my time with random people messaging me at all times, which some of the dating apps allow that. But I really wanted people within my criteria to be the only ones that I would see and message. So I use and this is a half that I tell all my clients, sometimes you need to use the paid version of the app to be very narrow and specific for what you're looking for. So I was using the paid version of Bumble. And then I saw, you know, my now husband's profile, a few of the things that I always look for, obviously, that the values that were important to me, so those came up as its filters, and his photos, he had photos with his family. So he had like one with his dad, one with his nieces and nephews, you can't really see their faces, but he was doing things with them. And that was a really important value to me, too. I always tell a lot of my clients that your photos, you know, a picture's worth 1000 words, but especially for men, that the photos often tell them more about them than what they're writing in the profile, because it shows like what their life looks like. And that was very aligned, like his life right now, even together is all about, like, centered around his family. And that was also a very important value of mine, too. So that was one of the initial things that kind of sparked that for me. And I felt like I could have known him, like he looks familiar. So anyway, we matched from there, had our first date, and then kind of the rest was history. But I always say like, we really should have met in various ways through our family, through our community, you know, through just running into each other. But it was the dating app that helped us actually have that connection, because he always says like, I probably would have never approached you at the coffee shop, you're always like, on your computer. And nowadays, people don't even know if you're a single or not. So a lot of that connection doesn't really happen. So I credit the bubble all the time for our love story, actually finding its real true start.

Robin | Oh, that's so great. And so tell us what did you I want to I'm interested in that story around. What did you What did you put in your profile? Like, how did you write it? And like, because you because you do say like, this is not about writing a big essay, right? Like you want people to be authentic, true, upfront. and concise. And also second question is, how did you share your values? And like, what did you put as values? And how did you know that you're beyond your husband's pictures? How did you know that your values were? Because I think this is really these are really important strategies with all my dating.

Dr. Christie | Yeah, exactly. So with my profile, and I tell everybody to do this in the front section, and this is specifically with Bumble some profiles are different. I basically put kind of a little synopsis where I'm from, you know a little bit about what I do, I had that I was a therapist on there, not that I was a matchmaker, and a lot of people in certain professions are always wondering, like, should I put that profession or should I not, but I had that I was a therapist, I say, you know, like I this is kind of who I work with at the time. And then I had like a few hobbies, things that I really enjoyed. So every musician I wrote that, you know, I love like hiking with a bunch in hand. So I kind of colored the picture a little bit. And that also helped connect with to because it gave some details like where the type of plays I like hiking in LA or you know, the type of pet I have like little details kind of helped us to spark the conversation. Then what I did and I always recommend this too, is choosing prompts that allow for conversation. So one of the prompts I chose was to truth and a lie, because that's just like an easy conversation starter. And it's like funny. So I think one of my, my truths that was kind of in a lie people thought was a lie a lot of times was that I met Arnold Schwarzenegger when I was seven in a luggage store. And that was the truth. But it's live I got a lot of people would comment that, like, tell me that story, right?

Robin | Yes

Dr. Christie | People love, like a story to connect. So that was one of my prompts as well. And my photos, and I also put in that initial space, my faith background, my cultural background, I just even put a little emoji. But in my photos, I put like a picture of myself doing something connected to my culture and community. So that was also another signal like, okay, this person really cares about their culture as Armenian, I put myself traveling, which was also really important to me. And photos of myself, like smiling, and just like what I generally look like my personality, and those things really aligned with my husband, he also puts something culturally connected, as well as his faith background. And so those things really kind of connected us initially.

Robin | Oh, excellent. So you say keep your profile short, right? Tell me did you did you put that you were looking for a partner and you wanted kids it like and would you recommend somebody? Like just just say that, right? I say like, be upfront, because you're this is really like a weeding out process? Like you're trying to find your needle in a haystack. Really? And why not be completely upfront and honest about what you are looking for in a partner so that, like anybody that's not in that, like, they're just not even going to be messaging you.

Dr. Christie | Totally, yeah, I recommended specifically with Bumble that a lot of apps do this, if you have the paid version, you can just put, you know, wants kids wants marriage. And sometimes they will shy away from putting words like that, they'll put the kind of softer version, so open to kids or once a relationship, which is fine. But if you're consistently attracting people that say they want kids and want a relationship, but then when you meet them, they're not really interested in that commitment, then I would say go narrow and your filters, say once marriage wants kids, and then what we recommend doing and through our methodology is on your first FaceTime or first date, asking questions around those specific topics in a way that's like direct, but not aggressive. So one question I recommend asking is like, yeah, what do you want your life to look like in the next five years, and if you for you know that you need to have kids or whatever it is, within that amount of time, and they don't mention that, then that's your sign to also ask a follow up like, Oh, hey, like, do you see kids in your future? I know, you put that you can even use what they put on the app? Like I know, you said you're open to kids on your profile, you know, do you see kids in your future, and then they have the opportunity to say, Yeah, but not now or whatever. But one thing that I saw so many times in couples therapy, pre engagement counseling, when I was doing that, primarily is that you want to be on the same page, you know, Maya Angelou says, when someone tells you are who they are, believe them the first time so someone's not sure if they want kids, and you definitely want kids, that's not a fit, you don't want to wait around and see if they'll change their mind. I've coached and worked with couples that were both unsure, and then one ended up wanting kids, I wanted it of not wanting kids, and then that relationship didn't work out. So if you aren't sure about what you're looking for, and you meet someone who's not sure, then that's automatically not a fit.

Robin | Definitely. So I would like to talk about the list. Because I know my when I was working as a matchmaker and love coach, I would be interviewing people and right away they come in with, these are the things I want in a partner. And so many times it was the physical attributes, and not so much about really what you're looking looking for, in your long term partnership with somebody, which really, which really matters, right? their character, their values. So so how are you helping people discern what really is the most important things for a healthy partnership? Beyond the list? So maybe it's a list? But it's, um, yeah,something different?

Dr. Christie | Yeah. So we think of it and frame it as like a sandwich. So we call it the criteria sandwich. So pretend you're going to subway or your favorite sandwich place, and you're building your sandwich. When you create your sandwich, the bread, the bar, the bottom and the top bar. These are the thinnest parts of the sandwich, right? So this is similar to like your deal breakers and what I call your must haves. So you don't want too many because you don't want to carb load the sandwich. So really, you should only be having like two or three things that are guiding and kind of putting book ending your list so to speak, that are non negogiable Trouble. So and those should be values based, they can't be like their height or things that are surface level or could change. And so once you build your bottom bun, then in your middle section, which is your like to have this, these are things that this would be great, but this doesn't really have so much to do with compatibility, long term relationship, you know, if they're worthy of that. So you can put as many things as you want, they like hiking, they like traveling, whatever, those are all great things. But they don't really from a research standpoint, tell us if your guys are going to go the distance. So then you get to your, the top of your sandwich, and that's the top of the criteria. So I recommend using these two or three things to guide who you swipe right and left on. So if it's your faith background, if it's their career, or that they're at some, the same level of lifestyle, whatever it is, you can choose whatever you want, but you can only have one or two things. And then from that point, you as you get to know somebody, then you can start asking deeper questions to assess compatibility. But right off the bat, using your values to guide that is really what's gonna help you get to people that are the right fit, and you're not confusing yourself with 1000 things and trying to figure out how am I going to ask, you know, if they are if they meet all this criteria, instead, you're just focusing on okay, they made these two things. Now, let me just connect and see if there's that chemistry and connection.

Robin | So how do you? How do you get people to get super clear on what their must haves are? And what what they really like? Because I think some people are like, this person has to be like this. And it's like, well, it's like almost convincing them like, no, that's not actually what's the most important thing for healthy partnership. Right? How do you how do you get people to understand the top of the top of the bun or bottom of the bun? Like, what are the deal breakers, and what are the must haves?

Dr. Christie | So they really revolve around three things. Number one are your values. So if you know that you have specific values, whether that's a faith background, a worldview, whatever cultural, they have to align there. The second thing is a vision for the future, have to have the same vision for the future. If we're going, you know, we're trying to make take a trip to London, and you know, that one person's going to Paris and you're trying to go to London, and you guys can't go together, right. So if they don't have the same vision for the future as you, then it's not a fit. The third thing is the lifestyle. So how they see their lifestyle, how they live their lifestyle, these are areas that also could not be a fit could not be compatible with you, if you see your lifestyles like you're a sailor, and you want to sail around the world, and they have like a dental practice and have to be in the same city forever, however long they work. That's not that's a lifestyle, clash. So those are the areas that you can see kind of those non negotiables and compatibility. From a research standpoint, actually, the more similar you are to potential partner, the more compatible you are. So it goes against the whole feeling of opposites attract. And it's more like actually, if we're similar in our values, our education, our financial status, then we're more likely to make a happy, healthy, long term relationship.

Robin | Excellent. So I've heard you say something about silver bullet. Can you explain that to us? What does that mean? And how and how and how does this apply to? This applies to online dating as well as just dating in general? Right?

Dr. Christie | Like, yeah, so the silver bullet swipe is kind of that from your tapa. And let's say you have three things, the silver bullet swiper, like, if they have this one thing, it's always going right. So one of the things I work with people on is sometimes if you're afraid of relationships, you tend to be a little bit more avoidant, everything feels like a left swipe, you know, they're wearing a weird shirt in this picture, or I don't know, their teeth are a little crooked. And this picture as I zoom in, so we're kind of looking for everything that's wrong with a person on a profile, when we're not, we're kind of dehumanizing them, maybe if you met that person in real life, you'd actually think they're attractive, or you wouldn't, they'd be wearing a different shirt. And that wouldn't be, you know, a potential red flag or whatever it is. So we're really training people to say, Okay, if they meet this value automatically, right, swipe and then I can get to know more details about them. So we're kind of retraining ourselves to not just say, see one thing and say it's not a fit, and actually getting to know somebody and becoming more humanistic, I guess, in the process of online dating. So that could be a various things. It could be like, okay, they have a certain education level or they have a certain job or career like they have a job or they have a faith backgrounds or into you or they say they want kids or want marriage. So those things are kind of those pillars and then in the messages on the day week can learn a little bit more.

Robin | Nice. So what are some of things you could say to people like these are like, clear red flags? Because we hear this, we hear that term a lot, right? And sometimes it's like, it's not, it's not a red flag, or maybe it really clearly is a red flag. This is not this deaf, this is where you would be like saying your clients, just steer clear. go the other direction here. What would you recommend? Like what would you say are like some clear red flags to watch out for?

Dr. Christie | Yeah, so I kind of separate red flags into two categories, one are like personal red flag. So it's like for you, that's not a fit, but for somebody else could make a good relationship. So that's like one category. So like, let's say, you have a faith background, and they don't have that that's just automatic, like no for you like red flag, not gonna be a good partnership, then there are red flags, that this person is really not a good fit for anybody at this time, like, they're not a good fit for our relationship in general, at this time. One of those things that I recommend, and sometimes, you know, is controversial to some people, but I think that they need to fully be out of marriage. So if they're separated, or you know, they're staying married, because of various reasons, and sometimes they're good reasons, you know, someone's on their insurance, etc. And you, you know, want to be married, you want to be in that commitment, then for me, that's a red flag, maybe a few years down the road, they might be out of that relationship and ready, you might want to consider them. But I've seen so many people kind of start that type of relationship, and then it just never gets to what they're looking for similar to what I mentioned before, a general red flag, I would say is untreated mental health struggles. So they say yeah, you know, I'm, you know, whatever, bipolar, etc. And then you ask, you know, what are you doing to work through that process? And are you working with a therapist, psychiatrist, doctor, they, they don't do anything, that's a red flag, because when it's not treated, and it feels like maybe it feels manageable, at some point, later down the road, we don't know what will experience circumstances, different triggers. And we also know from the fields of epigenetics, that any type of outside stressor can turn on a gene. So it's like, let's say they don't really struggle with anxiety or depression that much or right now, later on in your life, as you know, things happen, that could turn on that gene. And then if they're not getting the help, are there against getting that same type of help, that could be really catastrophic for a relationship. There's a lot of different signs and things people talk about around like love bombing, and that sort of thing. Sometimes those are harder to see right off the bat. So it's not necessarily like an automatic red flag if they send you flowers after a date. So those things are a little bit more contextual. But obviously, if there's any type of personality disorder, narcissism, whatever, that's a red flag, because it's character logical, it's not like a pattern, they can shift with their behavior getting some work on, it's more like this is how they've learned to survive in the world. And that's there's no space for that deeper intimacy and connection, they're not able to meet the needs of somebody else. And then I say, a general red flag is like, if they don't want to, they don't like you, if they don't want to commit to you. That's a red flag. So you know, they could have all the things on your criteria and your list. But if they're not committing to you, they're not showing you that consistent communication and not progressing the relationship. They're kind of stringing you along red flag, until those are kind of some of my automatic ones. Yeah.

Robin | And you I've heard you say this before, which is just solid advice is consistency. Right? And communication, and attention, and how, how you're actually communicating to each other. Right? So

Dr. Christie | Exactly. I always say it's that consistent communication over time, that tells you who somebody is, a lot of times people will go on the best first date ever. This is the reason I recommend the first dates don't say, Don't are very long, but oh, I went on this amazing first day for four or five hours. Amazing. And what's their communication and consistency like five days down the road? 10 dates down the road? That's really what we're looking for. Even if you had the best first date ever. I want to see them on the fifth date and the sixth date. That's how you're able to decipher some of those patterns that aren't healthy.

Robin | So how are you recommending people navigate if they you know, let's say they go on a first date. And it's like, it was okay. First of all, how are you? How are you recommending people set up their first date? Are you recommending just like a coffee a walk? What? And then how are they? How are you helping people decide, okay, I'd like to see this person again. Like maybe it's just like it wasn't, I didn't blow my socks off. But I could I could meet this person again. Like how do I would love to hear your recommendation on that?

Dr. Christie | Yeah, so we kind of walk people through the process for online dating of like assessing their profile figure Reaching out kind of we have our method is five messages to meet on the messages. So you're not messaging for like two weeks, you're really kind of getting the main questions answered. And then we still recommend a FaceTime or I call live check. So just like saying hello, making sure that there's that they passed that vibe check doesn't have to be a full on date, like we were experiencing COVID. But just like, hey, hello, making sure that there's that connection. So you're not wasting time and energy if there is it. And then the first day, I recommend it being like short and sweet. No more than 90 minutes. It could be like a coffee at a cute cafe coffee and a walk a little whatever, picnic, nothing, no long dinner, no, you know, hike, nothing like that. And just leaving the checklist at home. Hopefully you've gotten all your questions answered throughout that process. And just noticing how you feel around that person. So did you show up to the day exhausted? And then all of a sudden, you're feeling alive and energetic, great to pay attention to? Are they doing little things that you feel like oh, that's like a sweet gesture, you know, holding the door offering to tip, whatever things like that. And then after the first date, you want to create time for reflection. So if you feel like you're not attracted to them, or interested them on the date, don't give those don't play that card, because I can't tell you how many times I've gotten feedback from, you know, on a date that oh, it seemed like the girl wasn't interested, I got that feedback from the date. And then I talked to her she's like, Oh, actually, I was interested, but right automatically, you read like, oh, I don't think he's that attractive, or whatever. So that causes your di to shut down. They're not their best self, you are in your head thinking oh, do I think he's attractive or not? You're like assessing and analyzing the situation. So you just want to have the mindset of like, okay, I'm going to pretend I like this person, fake it till I make it until after the date, then I can give myself the chance to have a second date or not. So many times women feel like, oh, I should have given myself the opportunity they wish they did. But then they had already felt like, oh, I don't think I was interested on the day. But that could have been for various reasons. So after the first day is when I recommend reflecting on if you want a second date, if you don't feel about automatic spark and chemistry, I think that's a great sign that they're probably a healthy potential partner, most of the time. For women, they feel that around date seven. So you want to give yourself that time to build that chemistry. For men, they usually feel a little bit earlier. So if you're automatically feeling like, Hey, I'm not attracted to them, or I'm not, there's not something that's keeping me curious to keep going, then it might not be a fit for you.

Robin | So you're saying most women don't feel chemistry until date seven?

Dr. Christie | Yeah, yeah. So all throughout kind of like the first few dates, you're not really sure about somebody. And that's for variety of reasons, physiologically and psychologically. But that's the average time. So when people especially women tell me, I don't feel it on the first day, like, you're not really supposed to, you know, that's natural, because you're a lot more guarded, you're assessing a lot, you're analyzing a lot. And so net, you're not really going to feel fully like yourself and feeling that full connection and chemistry until later on in the process.

Robin | Yes, wow. So let's talk about patterns. And doing our best not to repeat old patterns. Right? Because, you know, we've all been in, most of us, majority of us have been in more than one or more relationships. And if relationships didn't work out, and here you are dating, you're trying to find a really healthy, beautiful partnership. And in the past, like you got stuck, being this way, or having this pattern that's just like a repeat, and you're like, Gosh, darn it, I do not want to repeat that pattern in the next relationship. And so how are you helping your, you know, everybody that you're coaching and working with, to really identify those patterns? And like you said, we heal together, right with another person. So you don't really know like, unless you're in that relationship with somebody, and then maybe you ever be that pattern again. You know what I'm saying, Christy

Dr. Christie | Exactly Yeah, and so we have a few different ways that we help people kind of identify this, but this happens throughout the process, people kind of overly focus and think that patterns only have to do with when I choose the person, but really they will come up all throughout your dating and relationship journey. And what we really teach is to kind of somatically approach knowing the difference between your actual healthy intuition gut feeling this has to do with this relationship and your like past relationship trauma or you know, experiences. So sometimes we're operating off of a past relationship and triggered or upset about things that don't really have to do with the person in front of us. It's more of because of what we've experienced. And so we want to really be very clear within our own body, kind of where we're feeling that where that's coming from. So we're able to accurately identify, you know what, that's my old stuff, or that's my stuff. And that's not about this person that's not about you. And it's really identifying the difference between like facts and how you're feeling. So I always say, go back to the facts, you know, if you're, you feel like, Oh, I think this person is cheating on me or seeing somebody else. Let's go back to the facts, you know, have they done XYZ or whatever. And then you can identify, oh, actually, that's my X. Like, that's a lot more of what they were doing. And this person hasn't given me any facts to make me feel like that's the case. So we really kind of want to identify the difference with that and know what your triggers are. So you can say, is this old stuff? Or is this really something I need to work on with this person?

Robin | Yes. Oh, I really, I really liked that. So it has, like you said, it's getting into your body. Understanding yourself. I really liked the idea what reflecting and journaling and just fact checking is what is what is actually really happening in the present moment here. And hopefully, just, the more you do that, like, the more you trust yourself, and get to know yourself on those deeper levels, like I think the better decisions you're going to make, right?

Dr. Christie | Totally, yeah, in every area of your life. And then you're going to be able to really heal from the past and not let your past dictate your present and future relationships.

Robin | Yeah. So you, I'm sure I got this from your Instagram, but you said a match.com study in 2021. The number one thing people are looking for in a potential partner is emotional maturity. So, right, you're saying people's values have changed. And for dating, that means they care more about emotional maturity, connection and intelligence, and less about how people appear on the outside. So Dr. Christie, tell us how are you helping people see, or know if somebody like is emotionally mature?

Dr. Christie | Yeah, great question. And that was one of the positives, I think came out of COVID dating is like we couldn't really meet in person. So we were asking deeper questions or getting to know people kind of on that deeper level, and valuing those things a lot more. So I think that's one of the positive things that came out of COVID dating. But what's really important to keep in mind is that everyone is carrying, like we just talked about their own stories from their childhood, from their past relationships and experiences. So as you're assessing emotional maturity, obviously, first really want to work on yourself figuring out okay, how can I communicate and understand myself in a clear, concise way, that's not bringing all my past like baggage with me. There's a lot of communication involved in emotional maturity, and also a lot of understanding, acceptance and awareness about where you're coming from and where they're coming from. People emotional maturity, and developing that kind of emotional intelligence is really an inside job. So if someone's giving you signs that they're not quite there yet, it's not your job to say, hey, use your words, or, Hey, are you really, because of your past relationship or whatever, like, you're not their mom, you're not their teacher. So the best way to really understand that is their ability to communicate to identify their emotions, and communicate them clearly to you. So you understand like who they are as a person. The second thing really has to do with like integrity. Are they who they say they are? Do their actions meet, match with their words? Are they able to identify if they're wrong? Like, are they able to say sorry, ask for forgiveness, some of these basic things that a lot of people don't do, they haven't built that muscle, they haven't been taught those things. So they either are self taught and maybe not very well, like we're talking about, or they really kind of go through life and relationships, not having that communication and real true connection. So we really kind of just want to pay attention to if people have done that work and focus on working on yourself because you can't do that work for somebody else. They really have to kind of reparent themselves in some ways to be able to have the language to speak about their inner world and emotional experience in dating and relationships.

Robin | Yes, absolutely. I love that. I was just looking at a post that Paul Brunson. I don't know if you know Paul Brunson. But he

Dr. Christie | Yes

Robin | Yeah, he's just he's just so great. And he he talks about his relationship with Jill, his wife for a long, long time, and he was posting just yesterday about intimacy. And how true marker of true intimacy is like just being able to be fully vulnerable with somebody. Like continuously constantly overtime. Like that is just such a beautiful example of intimacy. And I thought about that, you know, like, if you're, if you're with somebody and you I mean, it takes a lot, I think and that's the other thing I would like I'm sure you're coaching people with is really it takes time for somebody to earn your trust, and your vulnerability. What about that? Dr. Christie?

Dr. Christie | Yeah, I love that what Paul said and Brene Browns work about like vulnerability, just being like earned like, it's not just randomly posting a ranch that your therapist really needs to read on Facebook, that's not vulnerability. True vulnerability is that connection, making sure someone's a safe place, and then being able to open up and kind of peel back those layers. The way that I really recommend singles who are like looking for that kind of safe relationship to start working on that now is creating relationships in your community friendships, whatever, that feel how you want your intimate, romantic relationship to feel. So you really want to find those people, a lot of times safety is built in the context of like, we're creating this relationship together. But some people have to have safe things about them already, they already have to have that work being done, they already have to be able to be a safe person, and then grow with you and that safety. So if you're kind of hoping you can be vulnerable with someone that hasn't built that ability to, you know, hold your space. They're not, they're trustworthy, but not intentionally, but they just don't have that safety built into them, then you're kind of barking up the wrong tree there. So you have to find people who have that emotional maturity, that ability to be vulnerable and hold space for other people's needs, while getting their needs met. However they need to get them met, and then building those relationships. And then when you are looking for a partner who has those same qualities, you'll be able to recognize it. Because if you don't have any safe relationships, where you're emotionally intimate, or whatever, with any friendships, then how are you going to attract that healthy relationship elsewhere, you won't really know what it looks like, because it's already in your life. So look for building those safe friendships and other relationships. And then that's going to follow,

Robin | I really, like I love that message. And I've heard you say this before Christie around what what you are looking for in a partner, hopefully, and this aligns is what you just said, You You're already embodying those things. You're not looking for somebody that doesn't like so let's say you don't have this, but you want somebody to be that bring that into your life. You know, I've heard you give the example of, you know, I'm not, like, let's just say somebody's like, I'm like, financially, I'm just like, not strong at all. I can't keep track of finances, I'm terrible at investing, I want to find somebody who's financially stable, and who like is just going to bring that into our relationship. And when you're coming out from a place of lack, or so can you explain that concept, please?

Dr. Christie | Yeah, totally, exactly what you said, it's like, we're kind of looking for through osmosis that the work that we really have to do individually, we're kind of looking through osmosis to have a partner do that for us. So we're like, hey, I'm not really good at this, or I'm, you know, this isn't my strong suit, I've we, I have a weakness around this. So I want someone to kind of come in and fulfill that part of me that I feel unfulfilled in myself. And what that creates, first of all, people think like, that's going to create the perfect like, compatibility, but what actually creates is that lack or feeling like, Okay, I'm not like good enough, and you kind of make your identity around, you know, I'm not good at this, that or the other versus if you're on your own journey doesn't mean you have to be at the end of the road or the finish line with it. But if you're on your own journey, you're learning financial literacy, for example, or you're on a health journey, and then you meet somebody on the way who's going that same direction. That's what's going to lead to that relationship that you desire. Not, I'm all the way over here, and they're all the way over here, because that's also going to create that lifestyle incompatibility that we talked about, versus saying, okay, you know, what, I really want someone who's financially stable. What can I do right now to build that up in myself? What can I you know, either learn, or what can I grow in myself so that when that person comes, we're going to be going on the same path in that direction?

Robin | Yes. I think this whole conversation has reminded me as well. And I'm sure you're you talk to your clients about this is that we have to put so much more emphasis on ourselves, and like, rather than looking outside of us, for that person that's going to bring way more into our lives, right. And it just changes the whole narrative. It changes the whole mindset, even when you show up on a date. It's like I know I'm not talking about from this ego place, but it's like, actually, I come to the table with a lot. And like, I bring so much love, so much of you know, maybe you're so close to your friends and family, you've got, you know, you've worked really hard, you've got a good career, You, you know, you've got a lot that you that you offer another person, if you were to be their partner. Coming at it from that place, rather than Oh, I really hope this person likes me. Or you know, it's just such a different way to show up.

Dr. Christie | Totally. Yeah. And that's the work in when you're in a relationship. Do I say that all the time?

Robin | Yes, yes.

Dr. Christie | We'll come. A really big question I always get asked is like, hey, I'm having relationship problems, but my partner doesn't want to come to therapy like so what do I do? And I always say, you come to therapy, like we can always work on relationships. And it starts with you. It starts with the work that you're doing, because relationships are that dance, it's the dynamic, if you're changing, if you start to steppin and there's still tangoing, that dance isn't going to work. So it's really about kind of understanding, okay, what can I do? And what can I focus on? Rather than okay, how's the other person going to help me or help my life or whatever. And we do a lot of this work also, in dating, I always ask my clients, you know, when we're thinking about yellow flags, or red flags, like, what are your red flags? Like?

Robin | Yes

Dr. Christie | What are your yellow flags, and start working on those things? And feeling like, hey, actually, I wouldn't want someone to disqualify me because of this thing that on paper, I might be disqualifying somebody else for we often reject other people in ways that we also reject ourselves. So it's really understanding, like, the whole process is like the mirror and this is the work we have to do ourselves. And there's not like a finish line to it. It's like, okay, once I do this, then magically the right person will come. It's really about consistently daily being doing that work on yourself, and also attracting and being in relationships that they're doing that work to,

Robin | Oh, my gosh, I really liked that I love like making a list of your own yellow, red light, your own your own green, yellow and red flag.

Dr. Christie | It's so good. Yeah, because it's like, you want to you feel like you're a great partner. You've worked through all these things. But if somebody else just looked at you like that on paper, they might be like, oh, maybe not maybe yellow, red flag. So that's really important to kind of humanize each other through the process.

Robin | Yeah. So tell us, Dr. Christie, about the like, how people can continue working with you. I know you're talking about coaching clients. So Can people sign up to work with you one on one? Or is it group like how does it work?

Dr. Christie | Yeah, so we basically offer our group program, that's kind of the main way that we work with most people, we walk people through our methodology, and you have a lot of individual support via texting and kind of a group support, as well as actual calls or retraining, answering calls or like swiping with you and for you. It's very hands on program, it's called Find the One. So it's a three month program, we walk through kind of the mindset, the inner work, the soul work, the actual strategy, we go go through your blueprint, and we say, okay, like, this is actually what you need to be doing. And then we also walk you through our 10 dates to soulmate roadmaps. It's kind of like going from that first date to knowing like, okay, this potential, this option has the future of like being like a soulmate type of person. And then we kind of give you you know, these are the questions to ask on this day, that's the type of date to go on to really learn about someone's character. A lot of times on the list, people come with things that are really character based, like, oh, I want them to be, you know, kind and generous, but obviously can't ask that, right on a, on a first day, like, are you generous, like you have to learn about a person so we're kind of giving people those interpersonal tools to figure that out through the dating process. So that's our group program. And we also have individual ways to work with me and our coaches as well. So if you're if you don't fit the demographic that programs primarily for like women, then we were able to work with you individually as well with coaching services to.

Robin | Oh my gosh, well, it sounds like just such a comprehensive way to go about it. And effective like I love the strategy, and the soul part of it. Of course, it's all like you say that there's you can't you can't control the chemistry you can't control the timing and I appreciate that too. Like there's there is the mystery in our lives that I'm thank goodness there is that part. You know, we can't control everything, even if we tried. So there was that magic piece but there's a strategy that can help you get there faster. That's what I think right?

Dr. Christie | Totally. I always say you there are things that you can work on so focus on those things rather than the things that you can't control.

Robin | Yeah. Well thank you Dr. Christie, for being here today and for sharing all of your wisdom and all the gifts that I've strategy that I'm sharing Are the people that are listening are gonna follow. So, thank you so much.

Dr. Christie | Thank you so much. It was so fun.

Robin | Please visit realloveready.com To become a member of our community. Submit your relationship questions for our podcast experts. At reallovereadypodcast@gmail.com. We read everything you sent. Be sure to rate and review this podcast. Your feedback helps us get you the relationship advice and guidance you need. The Real Love podcast is recorded and edited by Maia Anstey. Transcriptions by otter.ai and edited by Maia Anstey. We at Real Love Ready, acknowledge and express gratitude for the Coast Salish people, and stewards of the land on which we work in play, and encourage everyone listening. Take a moment to acknowledge and express gratitude for those that have stewarded and continue to steward the land that you live on as well.

Transcription by https://otter.ai & edited by Maia Anstey