Let’s Talk Love Podcast Episode #15 with Dr. Ish Major | Transcript

22.07.28

This transcript is from the Let’s Talk Love Podcast, available in our Podcast Feed.

Robin Ducharme | Hello, and welcome to Let's Talk Love. Today I'm so happy to have had a conversation with Dr. Ish Major. He is a board-certified psychiatrist with nearly two decades of experience and his own practice. He's best known for his role on the show Marriage Boot Camp, where he works with some of the biggest names in reality TV to help solve their relationship issues. He's also the owner of many detox clinics in the US, which is hugely impactful in the world. He's dedicated to the mental and relationship health of those he touches. I so appreciate his real talk and solid advice for relating in a more truthful and loving way. He also has a great sense of humor, and we had a lot of fun talking, and I hope you enjoy as well. Welcome to the Let's Talk Love podcast, where we flip the script on outdated narratives and cliches about love and relationships. I'm your host, Robin Ducharme, founder of Real Love Ready. This podcast is for anyone who wants to be better at love regardless of relationship status. We'll talk about the intimate connections in our lives. And the challenges and complexities inherent in those partnerships through our no holds barred interviews with global experts we'll gain insight about ourselves and learn new skills to improve our relationships. Because when we learn to love better, we make the world a better place. Are you ready for open and honest conversations about love? Let's get started.

Robin | Welcome to this edition of The Let's Talk Love podcast. Today, I'm so happy to invite our guest, Dr. Ish Major. Thank you for joining us, Dr. Ish.

Dr. Ish | Thank you so much, Robin. Sorry, I'm late. I'm notoriously behind schedule.

Robin | Let's go into the psychology of that. No. [both laugh]

No, no It's all good. You know, for those of our listeners that don't know you, and I know most do, I would love to hear where you're spending your time. You know, in this present moment. I know you've always got so much going on and you know, watching you on YouTube and watching you on your show and listening to interviews. Where is your like your day to day week to week schedule taking you these days.

Dr. Ish | So you know I am a born and raised country boy Robin. So, I'm from South Carolina originally and I have I still have two clinics here in South Carolina up in upstate in Greenville. So I'm here a lot. Home now was actually down in South Florida. Down in Hollywood. Yeah, I just I don't do well, in the winter months. I lived in New York for a while and the winters kicked my butt there and the short days and the dark. You know that seasonal affective thing is real. And so I need sun, I'm a tropical people. So I spend a lot of time down there when I'm shooting the doctors and stuff like that I'm in New York. When I'm doing the Nick Canon stuff I'm either in New York or LA. When we shoot our show Boot Camp, we shoot that in LA so I'm bicoastal. I'm all over. Sounds like a lot.

Robin | It is a lot.

Dr. Ish | But mostly down south. Yeah.

Robin | Yeah. Well, I have to say, I admire so much of what you're doing. You're the real deal when it comes down to giving people I think the tools and the strategies to be better in relationships. And I think that's what this all comes down to is how important that really is in all of our lives for our happiness. And something that I learned from you which actually, okay, so one thing I want to say is that it's not something I learned from you, but it's something that you a message that you actually reiterate the importance of. And I wanted to talk about something that you talk about how we all have our own unique gifts. And you say each of us comes to this life with a purpose and a gift, something you're here to share with the world. And I've heard you talk about how you kind of learned about your gift of you know you're in school in high school and your friends are outside hanging out on the playground and all these girls are surrounding you going like "Ish, we need help, man, we're having problems with relationships." You need help, and you were naturally able to offer guidance and a listening ear. And probably some really great advice to these women. These girls right?

Dr. Ish | Yeah, yeah.

Robin | So that was naturally one of your own gifts, like a natural gift. I just wanted to ask you to talk about how people would identify their own gifts.

Dr. Ish | And it's so true, right? We all have it right? We're born with it. There was nothing we had to do to earn it. There's nothing we had to, there's nothing someone had to gift us. You know we didn't get it from our grandparents right that it could be a generational thing but it's uniquely yours, right? It's and folks Oh, well, I know, I don't know what how do I know what my gift is what your gift is the thing that you do naturally better than anybody else you know. Right? The thing that just comes naturally to you, and not only can you do it, and not only can you do it well but you enjoy doing it, and you enjoy doing it more than anybody you know, you do it better than anybody else, you know, and you do it with the least amount of effort. Right? Because Robin, the problem is, life teaches us that it's gotta be hard, right? Yeah. And we've got to earn it. And we've got to get out there and put our worth and our value on the line with each go around. And if we don't try enough and sweat enough and are exhausted enough, and you know and toil enough, right, then it's, then we're not worthy. And no, that's the opposite of what's your gift is about. We're put here to be happy and joyful.

Robin | Our natural state is health. That's what you say, our natural state is joy,

Dr. Ish | Your natural state of joy, we were put here to feel that every single day, and you were put here to be able to do to earn your way and your living in this world doing the thing that comes naturally to you. And that's the thing that comes easiest, but it's scary, right? Because we don't see the how we don't see how it's going to work or I get how, how am I gonna make money doing this? How am I going to pay my rent doing that? Right? How, how am I going to be an attractive enough person on the singles market doing that if I'm struggling finacially. And so all of these things that tell us, we can't have it. But the folks who we look up to right, the folks that we see on television, in the media, and on our Instagram scroll, they're doing it. And we still think they're somehow different from us, right? And there's no difference. They just took the leap. They took the job, they're like, I don't know how it works. You never got to know how it works. You just gotta jump, wings are gonna pop out on your way down. Parachutes gonna come out, just trust in that.

Robin | Oh, I love that, the wings are gonna pop out. I love that.

Dr. Ish | Right? It's like, it's like flying from LA to New York. You never gonna see the landing strip in New York, until you take off from LA, right? You got to be up in the air before you see that landing strip come into view. Right. And that's the scary part. Because one of those human needs, we have a certainty we need to know, how's this thing gonna work? Right? Is this? Is this the right job? Is this the right place to live ais this the right partner? Right? All these things, we want to be as certain as possible. But the bigger things are the things you're just not going to have that control over. And you've got to be able to embrace and live with that uncertainty. So yeah, for me, it was that you know, I grew up in a big family of five, five sisters, one brother, Mom, and Dad were together for 56 years. So you kind of had to learn some of those people skills naturally and being around women, you also have five sisters, eight aunts, we all lived within a three or four mile radius, right? So there was always it always felt like there was just a group of women having a party at my house all day long. And I'm the baby boy, right. So I'm the little brother who's like getting in everybody's business and sitting on mom's lap here and right and getting passed around. And so I'm privy to a lot of these conversations. And so by the time I got to school, number one, I guess I just made me a lot more comfortable with females in a very non judgmental, non threatening kind of way. And so yeah, eighth grade, sixth, seventh, eighth grade, middle school, kids are outside running around doing their thing. You know, I'm in homeroom, there's like five or six girls around me and they're just getting relationship advice. [laughs]

Robin | Oh my goodness, you're that guy. Right? I remember being in school at that age. And there was always that one guy that would be like, the person would go to like, "we need your help." Right? "Give us the low down on how these boys are thinking because we don't know."

Dr. Ish | I was their inside man. I was a spy.

Robin | I love it. So you know you're working with people, you know, you've had decades working with couples, individuals, you've got so much mental health experience. And I'm curious, what have you come to know is the common thread that causes the most amount of relationship turmoil?

Dr. Ish | Yeah, that's a really good question. I think the common thread is what we're bringing to the relationship right? It's never the other person. We like to think that it is and we like to say that it is because it helps us feel better. Yeah, but it's really everything that we're bringing and not so much what we're bringing but it's the thing that we think we're not bringing, right? Everybody, if you have been born and been through childhood and been through your adolescence and are now an adult you know at some stage nobody gets through it without this degree of what I call never enough itis right we all get a little bit of that splashed on us. Am I enough? Is who I am enough to get this job? Is who I am enough to really drive that nice car? Is that really me? Is who I am enough to live in that big pretty house over there? I mean, I thought that was for other people. Is who I am enough to have the partner of my dreams? This beautiful, gorgeous human who is successful and smart and funny and loving and caring? What would they want with me? Because I don't know if I'm enough, right? And that's usually the thing that trips people up when you get hung up on that, right? Some of us get hung up in two different places. Hard to ask, and we can't figure out how or we don't figure out if we truly deserve to ask. And once you get over that first stumbling block, then the second ask, the second thing you have to ask yourself is put yourself in a space to be ready to receive it. Right? A lot of us really, myself included, struggle with the receiving of it, right? We can ask all day long. The big pretty thing shows up or like, Uh oh, now what? Right? And then our brains get to work making our love stories come true. Whatever that narrative is you have about yourself, whatever those things are, you say to yourself about love and about career and about families, right? If your love story is all guys cheat, then your brain is going to pretty much no matter what you attract, your brain is going to work to make that part come true, right? And you're going to look for those things. If you if your love story is it's a jungle, it's a game, it's hard when you're going to only meet people who help reinforce your love story. So you really got to start with changing that narrative, that self-talk what you're bringing into the relationship there. And that's where it really all starts. That's what that's where everybody gets in trouble.

Robin | Yeah. I've heard you say that the opposite of love is shame. Can you just talk about this? I don't I don't understand that concept and I would love it if you could just talk more about that.

Dr. Ish | Yeah. Well, think about what love is. Right? Love is the act of choosing someone and being chosen back. Right. Love is accepting. Love is nurturing. Love is replenishing. Love is refreshing, right? Love is safe. You feel safe. When you're with somebody who you love and you know loves you back, right? And shame is the exact opposite of all those things. Shame keeps you on guard. Shame keeps you encased in that armor, whatever your armor is, right? Whether it's the same armor of being just, I'm just so busy all the time. I really don't have time to deal with that. Whether it's, you know, I'm just going to be super, super funny and aloof. And nobody's ever going to ever know my really, really true feelings. Whether your armor is I'm just going to be too cool for school man, I just don't care about anything whatever. Nothing hurts me, right? Shame keeps you stuck. Shame keeps you small. Because you're simply going through life in every situation, trying to not be hurt, and trying to not feel ashamed and love is the opposite of that. Right? Love is being totally vulnerable.

Robin Ducharme | Yes and when you talk about the armor and letting that go? That is definitely the difference and vulnerability is that exactly.

Dr. Ish | Yeah. Yeah. Like, it's the armor. Right? And yeah, and we all do it to certain degrees. I do it. You know, everybody does it as far as we wake up in the morning. And we've got to become this other person, right? I gotta go, gotta go do the job got, first I've got to fight this traffic and then I got to deal with these folks at work and then I got to do this thing, whatever, whatever those things are in your life. I got to get these kids off to school. I gotta put that mom armor on, you know, I got to make sure I got that right and ready. And at some point, you know, sometimes life gets hard, you know. And sometimes that armor gets really really heavy. And at some point, we think in our brains because our brains are always trying to make things make sense and easier for us. Your brain says you know what, how about tonight when you get home, it's such a hassle to take that armor off, just leave it on, leave it off, because you will have to put it back on as soon as your partner starts you know telling you about this thing you didn't do right or as soon as the kids you know start bugging you with kids stuff or as soon as this friend or this thing wants your time and attention so it's easier just to leave that on the on and we get stuck in that cycle. We never get a place where we can just sit down take it off and breathe and so just keeps us very very stuck and very very living this very compressed version of our life. You know?

Robin | So when you talk about, I mean we all have you know the sides of us that we want to hide, the shadow side. The stuff that we need to work on, right? Our wounds. And you say everyone has a thing they don't want to admit about themselves but know and they're pretending not to know. So how do you discover that thing that you're pretending not to know? How do you figure it out? That is how, you know, how is it? You know, obviously, it's very helpful to bring these shadow our shadows to light and identify what those wounds are so that we're not so that we can heal that side. I mean, we're on a healing journey. That's what I believe.

Dr. Ish

Right, right. Yeah.

Robin | So what about that, like, we're hiding these things we were pretending we don't want to reveal.

Dr. Ish | Right. We all have an everybody's at a different point on the journey. But we all have this thing. That most of our days, we're pretending not to know about ourselves. Right? For me, you know, I grew up a skinny little poor black kid from South Carolina. Right? And so it's like, why would? Why would anybody want to talk to me? Why would anybody want to listen to me? I'm not very significant, you know, you know, I'm just that kid. Right? And so that was, that was one of my big shames. Just of growing up from that place of lack from the things you didn't have or the things you perceived that might have been important that you didn't have. Looking back, I'm like, Oh, wait, actually, I grew up pretty wealthy. Because I had a mom and a dad, who were present and who cared and who was smart and who loved us and who put everything they had into us. I was like, that's pretty much all I needed. But back then, right? All of these things were I'm just a skinny little kid getting picked on in school, man. I'm the wimpy kid, the quintessential nerd, coke bottle glasses, 90 pounds, 20 of that is all glasses and eyewear, all of these who's gonna love that? Who's gonna love that little wimpy kid? Is that kid enough? Maybe you gotta go out there and achieve some things, all of these, all of this narrative that you put on yourself really. Right, Robin? And the world kind of reinforces and shows up and reinforces and when the world reinforces the worst that we think about ourselves. That's the thing that sticks Robin we never...

Robin | Oh yes. When the world reinforces the things that we don't like about ourselves. That's what sticks.

Dr. Ish | That's what sticks to the positive reinforcement. Water off a duck's back really.

Robin | Yes. It's the negatives that really stick? Right?

Dr. Ish | Think about it, I could ask you to name me five bad things that happened to you so far in 2022. And you'd be like, I got 10 things for you right now. Let me go down that list. If I say you name me, five of the coolest things have happened to you last week, you'd be like, Hmm, let me think about that. Yeah.

Robin | Right. So really, it's retraining, it's retraining your brain and it's you know, I think with age comes wisdom hopefully, and a different perspective. Like you said, it's like you grew up in like you said with a poor family, your family didn't have as much as their kids you were surrounded by? And now your perspective is you were very wealthy because you grew up in such a loving supporting home. You didn't know, you didn't know. And one thing you did say is that you didn't realize that you were poor until you were in university and your friend, your friend was like, gonna you're gonna go home and get some winter clothes. You're like, what? But I got a coat.

Dr. Ish | It was the weirdest thing. Right? We're getting ready for fall break. And I was like "Oh yeah, I gotta go home. Why are you taking all your clothes? And they're like, "I gotta go home, get my winter clothes." I was like, "Winter clothes what do you mean?" They were like, "Well I got my winter clothes, I got my stuff." I was like, "Oh, well..." They were like, "Don't you have?" I was like "Yeah, I got winter clothes. I have a winter clothe. It's called a coat."

Robin | One piece of winter clothing! [both laugh]

Dr. Ish | So yeah, you know, but it all goes back to those childhood wounds. Right? If you think about it, most of us by the time we graduate, you know, here in America, middle school, right eighth grade, around that adolescent age, by the time we get through seventh, eighth, ninth, tenth grade, most of us have had that very, very shaming event that literally changed who we are. Right? If you were an artist, and you drew something or you made something and you showed it and somebody laughed or somebody you know downed it, or somebody told you how not good it was never got myself up like that again, going to put that away, never going back there. Do you know what I mean? Because most of us if you think back to it, I can remember mine like it was yesterday. If you think back to it, most of us have that thing that confirmed the worst that we were believing about ourselves those insecurities. And that shame, put us on a whole new trajectory, right? And so the whole goal of adulthood is to figure out what that thing was right? Go back and, and you got to play lawyer, right? You gotta go CSI on this thing. You gotta go. [Robin laughs] Right. Right, because one or two things happened right either. You didn't learn the right lesson. or the way you think it happened isn't true.

Robin | Yes.

Dr. Ish | Right? And you're just really gonna go back and replay that in your mind. Right?

Robin | Wow. And we have to go CSI on that stuff!

Dr. Ish | Right, you've got to look at the evidence. Right, you got to look at the evidence for your own insecurity, and worth. Is the thing that this person that lesson taught me, was that the true lesson or was there something else I was supposed to get? And I just learned the wrong thing. And how do I know they were right? How do you know they were right? Well, that's the way mom and dad did it. I get it. But how do you know they were right? Because they were just people too.

Robin | Yeah. So going back to what we were talking about before around relationship turmoil, and how really this is, this is about so much. It is so much about how you are operating yourself and what wounds you're showing up with. I mean, there's the communication piece, which I think so much. You have so many tools for correcting communication with couples. I mean, I do want to get into that. But really, what we're doing is CSI-ing.

Dr. Ish

Horatio Caine all day long. Get the t-shirt, wear it under everything you got. That's what you always dong.

Robin | Yeah. But really, we want to undo and unlearn really a lot of that stuff that's getting in our way of relating in a loving way.

Dr. Ish | Yep.

Robin | Does that make sense? Am I right?

Dr. Ish | It does, right. And so, think of it, think of it as your smartphone, right? Every so often, you've got to update, you've got to download that new update, right? And it's overriding some of those programs that have the bugs in them, right? They're not working quite right, right. If we think about our life is kind of the same way most of us have. Most of the areas in our life we do okay, whether it's career or right, if it's body we're doing great. And career we're kicking butt, and family we're doing amazing, but maybe romantically not so great, right? There's usually one area where we're not performing like we think we should, right. And so in that area, you got to look at, okay, what are the things I'm telling myself about my love life? What are the things I'm telling myself about romance and about my level of love ability? Right? And are those things true? And examine the evidence that says it's true or not, right? Just you really got to look at you've got to be that pragmatic and look at it right. Are all men really dogs? Really? Because I kind of know some who aren't. Right? Or maybe it's where I'm looking. Maybe it's what I'm attracted to superficially, that's tripping me up, maybe it's what I think on a deeper level is the thing I deserve because I don't really think I'm all that lovable. Right? Whatever those things are, you've got to go back and really examine it. If you're underperforming in any one of those areas of your life, whether it's you know, career-wise, you know, your spirituality, your, your, your body, your romance, your, whatever those things are, pick that area and examine what it is you're telling yourself, right? My guess is the things you're telling yourself probably just ain't true.

Robin | Yeah. So let's talk about communication and the show Marriage Bootcamp. For those that haven't watched it, it's such a fantastic show. So the premise of the show, and you can correct me but the premise of the show is you bring in, is it six couples?

Dr. Ish | Yeah, we used to have five couples, these last couple of seasons due to COVID we had four.

Robin | Yes. And they live in this, they're reality, they're stars, so different reality shows or walks of life. And they spend 10 days in a big beautiful home, but it's not a vacation. The reason it's called Marriage Bootcamp is because people are getting down to work literally hard heart intense work on their marriages, and their relationships. Yes. And one of the things that you teach and one of the practices that you go through is these rules of engagement for communication. Can you please go through those?

Dr. Ish | You know, Robin, it is so funny you picked that out. That is my favorite day of every single season, right? We call that day, the turn, when we finally roll out some of the tools and the rules of engagement. And you know, we say it so often, "communication, communication," it almost gets trite, because we don't even ever really get to dig into and unpack what that really means. Right? So the rules of engagement are simple, right? Those are the tools you use with your partner to help everybody feel seen, heard, and understood. So what's the first rule? Same team.

Robin | You're on the same team.

Dr. Ish | We're on the same team, Robin!

Look, Robin is not about the thing that you did. It's about this thing out here that's really trying to penetrate the boundary we have between the two of us, right? And we need to figure out how to attack this problem. Right? Yes. And you've got to be able to correctly identify those threats, those targets. What about you know what these kids are getting on our nerves? Right? Yes, this job is trying to take my attention away from us, from me and you. I wonder what we could do about that, you know, the inlaws are really annoying us this week. What is it? Our friends are trying to really kind of pull us out of our connection time, what can we do? Right? It's you and I against the thing out there. Always. I say, once you once you're in a committed relationship, there are no more me issues. There are only we issues.

Robin | Oh that's a quote right there. When we are in a partnership, there's no longer a me issue. It's a we issue. Woah, I like that.

Dr. Ish | Right. Yeah, that's the first rule of engagement. Rule number two, same topic,

Robin | Same topic.

Dr. Ish | If you're going to engage in a discussion, a heated back and forth conversation or dare I say, argument, if you're going to engage, right, you kind of use some rules to that engagement, same team. It's you and me against the thing out here. Same topic. We're not we're not going to talk about the three other things I did wrong last week. [Robin laughs]

That's for hour number two. [both laugh]

Right! What we need to do right here, is stay focused on the task at hand, right? Because what happens is we get into these arguments with a partner. And within about five minutes, it's no longer about the thing we're discussing. It's simply about me trying to be right. Right.

Robin | So, common.

Dr. Ish | Right, and if I'm making myself right, the more right I am, then that must mean, the more wrong you are. Right. So I'm trying to feel good by helping you feel bad. And it's helping us not work, right. And so we're going to focus on this one topic. It's not about winning the argument. We're going to stay right here. Because if you think about it, right studies, studies will tell us that most of us, most couples argue about the same three things 70% of the time.

Robin | And they're unresolvable,

Dr. Ish | They're resolvable, but you just skip around from topic to topic, because you're always going to pick the topic of the day that helps you win. Right? I need to win this argument right now today. So I'm gonna go talk about the other two things that I can't win. I'm gonna stay on this one thing right here, right? You said you were going to text and you didn't text? And that's what I'm talking about because I can win that argument. Right? And so most of us argue about the same three or four things 70% of the time because nothing ever gets resolved. You never sit down and stay on one topic. So same team, same topic, then rule number three, LUV, listen, understand, validate. That sounds overly simple. But Robin, you're familiar with this, you know about active listening skills. You're doing some of those things right now. Right? You're staring directly at me through the camera. You're nodding. When I say something that makes sense. You're looking quizzical when I say something that doesn't, right, I know, right? You're leaning in, right? You're actively listening and showing me that nonverbal communication like, Hey, what you're saying has value, right? And I want to hear that, right. And what I teach couples to do is so, Robin, tell me what you had for breakfast this morning. We're gonna roleplay LUV.

Robin | I had protein oatmeal with blueberries and walnuts. [laughs]

Dr. Ish | Did I hear you say you had high protein oatmeal with blueberries and walnuts?

Robin | Sure did. [laughs]

Dr. Ish | All right, right. I listened. I asked for clarification to make sure I understood exactly what you had for breakfast. And in that clarification, and being able to repeat it back to you, I was able to validate for you that I heard what you said, right? That helps you feel fully seen and heard in that moment. And when those first two things happen. Now we got a much better chance of you feeling understood in that moment also, right? LUV, and it's, you know, the, you know, we have a lot of hip hop couples on there. A lot of big celebrity couples today. And they're like, "This feels weird. I'm not doing it." Practice it, practice it. They start on day five by day 10 whenever they get an argument, one of them will turn to me and say "What I heard her say was..." [laughs] Because it works, right? It works because we really just do you see me here, right? I am. I am asking you to help me feel good, right? And in every relationship with somebody who you love romantically, Robin. We're only ever trying to tell you two things, just two. How much I love you, or how much I really need your help with something right now. That's just it.

Robin | Wow. Yeah.

Dr. Ish | Right. Think about it. Think about every interaction you have with your romantic person, they're trying to communicate to you how into you and how much I love you in this moment or I'm asking you for help, right? If we're having an argument, I'm probably asking you for help with something. I'm feeling bad about this thing. And I'm asking you to help me feel a little better about it. Right? That's what I'm really asking.

Robin | Yeah, it's simple. And it's powerful stuff. Because you remember those, those two things. Excellent.

Dr. Ish | Right, right. And then the last rule of engagement, you make it through this thing, right? You have the blow up, you have the intense heated discussion. You listened, you understood, you validated each other. Maybe you resolved it. A lot of times, you don't really need to, because as long as you felt heard and seen and validated in the moment, you're pretty much okay, right And we got through it. Nobody called a divorce lawyer. Cops didn't pull up. 911 isn't on the way. We got through it together, celebrate that, right.

Robin | Yeah, celebrate it.

Dr. Ish | Spike the ball, that's the last rule spike the ball, whatever that thing is for you do a Netflix binge have some ice cream, pop some popcorn, have some makeup sex, whatever that is for you guys do that thing, right? Because it confirms the thing that we are there for. Right? I am here for the love. I am here for the belonging. Let's confirm that after we had that argument.

Robin | Yeah, something that you've, you've said before, and I love this because you were talking about the meaning of love, and intimacy. And this was just reframing love in my mind, you know, it's very important to have intimacy which means a lot of different things in your relationship. Like love is not the end game. And what you've said, is actually love a deeper, deeper form of love, or let's go deeper than love. It's this feeling of belonging. I feel that feeling of safety. As you said, that was just a different level, a different perspective that I'd never heard before.

Dr. Ish | Yeah, it's, you know, it's when you really think about is what we're in the game for. Right? We were yes, we want, we want the love. And, you know, we want to receive that and are many different love languages, whatever those are specific to you, you know, but what we really want, we want the love, but we also want the belonging, right, that's what makes family so cool, because it's the place where we belong, you know, I've got a designated spot in this dynamic where I can come in, hang up my armor, take it off, put it over there, I can let everybody see me. I don't have to over-explain to anybody who I am or how I think or how I show up in the world, right? There's something about our dynamic when you inherently get it. Right. And not only do you get it but you accept it.

Robin | Yes. Oh, that feeling that's what that is, like, I just, that is it. Right? When you're in a partnership that you feel so incredibly safe to just be 100% yourself. 100% accepted, you feel like you belong like you like in your family. Some of us don't have families like that. But with a partnership, if you can get if you can have that that's really that's a beautiful, beautiful thing.

Dr. Ish | That's the thing you're looking for. So it's really, you know, it really hinges on acceptance, and it hinges on your ability to not judge each other in those moments. Right. And folks say okay, well, how do I not judge? Okay, well think about the area where you judge the most. And that's usually the area where you yourself, feel the most shame. Start right there.

Robin | Oh, my gosh, I'm telling you the notes after this podcast are gonna be a lot of quotes.

Dr. Ish | Right? Think about that. We judge other people's lives the most. There's a reason you're so intently tuned into that one area, because it's usually the area where I myself feel the most shame. And so that's why right and, I am looking to feel better about it. So I am looking at everybody else who does it not quite as good. So I could feel a little better about myself in that area. Where I feel ashamed as well. So that's, that's how you start the journey to be non judgmental. As you're on that journey, then you can get into that area of acceptance, Robin. Not only acceptance but radical acceptance, like, yeah. Right. I'll take all of it. I'll take all of it. I may not like all of it, right? There's always going to be some things we don't like that other people do. It's just it's a human thing. But you gotta accept it. You know judge Toler always says on the show all the time. She's like, you know, it was one of the most brilliant things I've ever heard any woman say. She says, you get the person you pick. Not the person they could be, right? So this is who they are today. You got to accept all of that because that's who you're picking. Right? You're not picking. You're not picking the guy he's going to be in two years after you sign him up and change him up. Right? You got to work on the person who, right you got to love the person who they are right now, you got to accept all of that. You don't have to like it. But you got to at least accept it. Right? Because that gives you guys that thing where you get into that belonging space. And that's the part that really feels good.

Robin | Yeah. One thing you also talk about, is I think it's, I don't know how many minutes, but the two and a half-day check-in. I really liked this practice. Making sure. Is it 3000 minutes? I didn't calculate it.

Dr. Ish | 3000 minutes.

Robin | 3000 minutes or every two and a half days. It's really it's just coming back together with your partner. Because we obviously we all have busy lives and you come and go with the kids, job and right. And maybe you are sitting down to watch a show together at night. But does that really count? Maybe you're but you're not? Are you actually sitting in front of each other eye to eye, heart to heart, and saying, "How are you?"

Dr. Ish | Right.

Robin | That's a different conversation. That's a different kind of creating space.

Dr. Ish | It's a very different space you created when you block out all the distractions, right. So I'm an old school country boy, we all had racecar driver nicknames growing up. Mine was Richard Petty.

Robin | Richard Petty, I like it.

Dr. Ish | So I'm a car freak. And back then dating myself. But we had this rule the 3000 mile checkup every 3000 miles, you had to change oil, had to change filters had to check your car up every 3000 miles. So for couples same difference every 3000 minutes. It's about two and a half days, you don't want to wait longer than two and a half, three days without sitting down with your partner. Like you said, TV devices are off or over here, right? We're going to put the kids to bed or they're going to be doing their homework time. Whatever, whatever that is, right? We're not going to accept any calls from the inlaws. There's nothing burning down, our hair is not on fire. And I'm going to look you in the eye. I'm going to hold your hand or touch your arm or your shoulder and I'm going to ask you, how are you doing?

Robin | Yeah. I like that you're like the comparison to it's your tune up. It's a relationship tune up. Relationship maintenance.

Dr. Ish | It's your tune up. And when you ask the question, intentionally. After that, you got to be quiet for the next 18 seconds. 18 seconds, because you want them to know that it was a real question. And you're expecting a real answer. And you're giving them the space to give that to you. Right? And so studies show I do this with every patient I have. I ask you what's hurting, I ask you what's wrong, and then I shut up for the next 18 seconds to let you build that space. And the first 10 starts to get a little awkward, right? But you just keep being quiet.

Robin | Yeah, it's 18 seconds. It's not. Yeah.

Dr. Ish | But you'd be amazed at how long that feels.

Robin | I really, I really like that.

Dr. Ish | Right? And then and see what they have to say. And then you're gonna go back into your rules, right? Listen, understand and validate. Oh, what I heard you say was you're having a really stressful week and this person at work is annoying the heck out of you. What's up with that, right? I'm just and you just talked about, you just talked about it. And for guys specifically, please don't go into that conversation. expecting to fix her stuff. She don't need you to fix it.

Robin | She needs you to listen, and be that, I've heard this analogy where she needs you to be the garbage can, hold the garbage can here, she wants to unload it and it's fill up but I'm not gonna do anything, I'm just gonna hold the can.

Dr. Ish Right. Right.

Robin | Yeah, and vice versa, right. If somebody needs to offload, I'm here to listen. And you know, but I'm not here to fix it.

Dr. Ish | Right. And you can help each other in that moment by prefacing what you're about to say was, you know what, and I actually don't need to fix here, but I just need to get it off my chest. Yeah, right. And when you say that to a guy, now he's like, okay, I can just sit back and listen, because I don't need to work. I don't need to formulate a strategy in my mind to solve this thing because you don't need help solving it so I can really just be present with you in the moment. Right and and receive what it is you're telling me?

Robin | Yeah, yeah. So I read your book, Little White Whys. It's really, really good. And it's for those women out there that are looking for a man and they're dating. But you know, also, gender aside, you also on your website, have your compatibility quiz, your couples compatibility quiz, which anybody can download on Dr. H major.com. And it's a PDF. So before we go, can you just give us an idea about what that quiz is all about? Because I think it's really good because your book talks about all these, like a lot more questions that you can ask somebody. Oh, but the other thing I did want to ask you about is you say that a man will tell you who he is in like the first three conversations. I was like, Oh my gosh.

Dr. Ish | Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah.

Robin | You can hear my dog barking. I apologize. There's somebody. That's okay. Just ignore Sunny. So tell us about that.

Dr. Ish | Yeah. Well, you know, guys, here's the thing about guys, right? We have, we all have our little white lies and our dirty little secrets and guys have just like everybody else. Now, here's, here's the biggest let me give you folks, the biggest secret guys hold on to which is [whispers] we like to fall in love just as much as women do. Yeah. We like falling in love, too, right? He didn't show up on the date, because he didn't want to fall in love. Right? That's not why he's there.

Robin | Unless he, of course, just wants to sleep with you. [laughs]

Dr. Ish | And that too, yeah. Right. But he's also hoping the other thing happens as well, you know, and ladies, if you really pay attention, everything you need to know about him. He's gonna tell you on those first three dates, maybe not in so many words. And like with every amazing conversation you've ever had, the magic is in the pauses, right? Not in the actual phrases. But the magic is in the pauses in between the magic deciphering what is he saying? Right? Is pay attention to the things he's not saying.

Robin | Hmm

Dr. Ish | Are you seeing anybody right now? Well, you know, is in a relationship but it didn't work out. And so right now I'm just kind of, you know, just kind of trying to get myself back out there. I mean, I've been on a few dates but you know, nothing's really panned out so much, but you know, I'm hopeful. That's a lot of verbiages, didn't answer the question, right? But listen to the things that he's not saying about his job, about his past history, about his health, about all those things because here's the thing, the guy for you, the guy who's showing up for you, right, he wants the real thing. He's dying for you to ask him those tough questions. Right? Right. I hope she asks me about my ex so I can tell her what happened there right. I hope she asked me about my mom so I can tell what a great relationship we had there right that's a huge thing. Yeah. Got to have a good relationship with his mom, the first woman he ever loved or was supposed to love right? That's that has a direct bearing on you. I hope she asks me about my job so I can kind of brag a little bit you know what I mean? I hope she asked me about what I'm hopeful for and what some of my dreams are he wants to show you and prove to you why he's the guy you should be sitting here with. The guy for you wants to prove to you that you made the right decision.

Robin | The other thing you say is there's nothing that you can say to that man or tell him that if he's if he's gonna run away he's not your guy. I mean if you show if you if you're gonna say okay, I've got three kids you know, not the best relationship with my ex, I you know, I work a lot, but you know, looking for my lifelong partner if he walks out the door totally not for you but if he is somebody that is going to be there for you You can't scare him away.

Dr. Ish | Right right you cannot you could say you know what I've got five kids for baby daddies and three really really crazy right and they do drive bys the house all the time the guy for you is gonna be like really? You know I got a spare deadbolt in my car and I have my tools outback. You want to go hook up the new locks? What do we need to do? Right? Because he's all in right he's there your his brand right whatever that favorite brand right? You like Colgate? You like Crest? What's your brand? Like your his brand. And he's, therefore, there's nothing absolutely nothing. You're gonna tell him. It's going to scare him away. He's only going to opt-in more the guy for you. And when you don't tell them all the stuff, right guys? Guys are smart too. And we know there is something being left out. Right? And so now we're a little confused. And for men, humans in general, men in particular, a confused mind Robin always says no No matter what it is.

Robin | A confused mind always says no.

Dr. Ish | A confused mind says no, I'm not sure how was hey, Ish how was that date, man? You were really excited about it, how did that work out? Well, you know, she was nice. And we had some good conversation. But I don't I don't know, you know, but there were some gaps, there were some holes that I'm still trying to fill in. And when you leave it up to us to put fill in the gaps when you leave it up to your partner to fill in the gaps. We never fill it up with the good stuff. Right? Because that's not how human minds work. We always fill it up with junk. We fill it up with the reasons of why it can't be so why I can't be happy because joy is so wholly hard for us to sustain. So we're always filling it up with the reasons why we can't have that joy in the moment. And so you don't want to leave any doubt. You don't want them to have to feel In any gaps, and you know ones that will say how soon is too soon to do this? How soon? There's no too soon, immediately, if not sooner, immediately. if not sooner. Tell him everything.

Robin | Yep. Just be honest. Be completely forthright. Right, right. Put it out there. I really appreciate that.

Dr. Ish | Yeah just be honest. It's gonna help you sustain a relationship. Folks say well what? What does it take? Right? What does it take? Well, honesty and truthfulness is the first thing it takes.

Robin | It's that simple.

Dr. Ish | Right? You got to you've got to be committed to being truthful, right? In every moment, right? Hey, I called you, I called you two hours ago. You didn't call me back until you know, Oh, well. Do I tell them the thing that helps me feel good? Helps me look better? Or do I tell them what was really happening? Right? You've got to be intentionally truthful at every turn.

Robin | Oh, that's so good. Oh, my gosh, I can't believe our time is up. But I love talking to you. It's so fun. And I learned a lot and I know our listeners did as well. And we're going to be making a number of posts with all these quotes that you've shared. But really, it's not just a quote, these are lessons. They're you know what I think it is Danielle LaPorte that says truth bomb. That's what these were truth bombs. Oh my, Ish was throwing them out today.

Dr. Ish | Truth bombs, years of experience, professional, personal, familial, and so right let right that's it's what we're here for. It's as Raggedy Ann and Andy, those are the breadcrumbs. Right? We all leave a trail right and just got to pick up those breadcrumbs. So we don't have to step into the same pitfalls that everybody else did. Yeah.

Robin | We're here to learn from each other. Oh, thank you so much, Dr. Ish.

Dr. Ish | Thank you, Robin, for having me.

Robin | I look forward to speaking with you again soon.

Dr. Ish | Yes, yes, indeed.

Robin | Okay, take care. Good afternoon.

Robin | Please visit realloveready.com to become a member of our community. Submit your relationship questions for our podcast experts. At reallovereadypodcast@gmail.com We read everything you send. Be sure to rate and review this podcast. Your feedback helps us get you the relationship advice and guidance you need. The Real Love Ready Podcast is recorded and edited by Maia Anstey. Transcriptions by otter.ai and edited by Maia Anstey. We at Real Love Ready, acknowledge and express gratitude for the Coast Salish people, the stewards of the land on which we work and play, and encourage everyone listening to take a moment to acknowledge and express gratitude for those that have stewarded and continue to steward the land that you live on as well.

Transcription by https://otter.ai & edited by Maia Anstey