Let’s Talk Love Podcast Episode #6 with Shamyra Howard | Transcript

22.04.28

This transcript is from the Let’s Talk Love Podcast, available in our Podcast Feed.

Robin Ducharme | On today's show, I'm speaking with sexologist Shamyra Howard about her book, Use Your Mouth: Pocket-Sized Conversations to Simply Increase Seven Types of Intimacy In and Out of The Bedroom. Shamyra has practical and powerful wisdom to share when it comes to intimacy and sex. She teaches that building a strong connection outside of the bedroom will result in more pleasure inside the bedroom. It makes perfect sense. Shamyra is a gem. I hope you get as much out of our sex and intimacy talk as I did. As always, if you have relationship or sex-related questions for any of our experts, please submit them on our website at realloveready.com and we will do our best to have our experts answer your question. Welcome to the let's talk love podcast where we flip the script on outdated narratives and cliches about love and relationships. I'm your host, Robin Ducharme, founder of Real Love Ready. This podcast is for anyone who wants to be better at love regardless of relationship status. We'll talk about the intimate connections in our lives. And the challenges and complexities inherent in those partnerships. Through are no holds barred interviews with global experts will gain insight about ourselves and learn new skills to improve our relationships. Because when we learn to love better, we make the world a better place. Are you ready for open and honest conversations about love? Let's get started.

Welcome Shamyra Howard.

Shamyra Howard | Hello! Thank you.

Robin Ducharme | I am so incredibly happy to have you on our show today. And on this episode of Let's Talk Love we have our esteemed guest Shamyra, Sexologist Shamyra. Shamyra is a licensed clinical social worker specializing in sexuality and relationships. She has a private practice serving the Baton Rouge and surrounding areas. Shamyra is Louisiana's first black AASECT certified sex therapist, which I was so impressed with. She travels and speaks extensively as a sex educator and as the best selling author of Use Your Mouth: Sex and Relationship Conversation Starters. And actually, the cards which I have coming in the mail, which I was so sad, they haven't arrived yet, but I'm excited to use them with my husband and Use Your Mouth: Pocket Sized Conversations to Simply Increase Seven Types of Intimacy In and Out of The Bedroom. And I'm just so happy, thank you for joining us today, Shamyra.

Shamyra Howard | Of course, thank you so much for having me. Listen, I loved our last conversation. So I'm so excited about this one too.

Robin Ducharme | I did too. You know, one thing that I am so excited about is when I talk to you, I learn so much. And I know that's true for our community members. And what you're teaching is, you know, simple, not easy, right? Like that's those things don't always correlate. They're just, they're just really actionable tools and ways that we can start looking at relationships in a different way. So I really love the practicality of what you teach and how you're, you're helping clients. So thank you!

Shamyra Howard | Of course. Thank you, thank you so much for seeing value in the work. And you're right. Simple. Not easy.

Robin Ducharme | Yeah. Well, you know, that's relationships in a nutshell, right? They're not simple, but they're... Actually, well, I can't say that relationships are simple or easy. But one of the quotes that I wrote down and which we have shared on Instagram, is something you say is, "The goal of any relationship is growth. If a person's not committed to the growth of the relationship, and just like any living thing, it dies."

Shamyra Howard | It does.

Robin Ducharme | It is true, right? That's what this community is all about, is learning how to do our relationships better. Because I really believe that there's nothing more important in our lives than the relationships that we have with people we love.

Shamyra | Right. Correct.

Robin | So today, what I wanted to focus on is talking about your book. And everything in your book is really about learning how to be more intimate with your partner. And obviously, so many of us are mistaken, just we just think that you know, intimacy is just kind of meshed into this ball with sex. But that's not what intimacy is. It's more, way more than that, right?

Shamyra | It's absolutely way more and you right. Whenever I tell this, this story of whenever I ask clients in session to tell me what it is, tell me about the intimacy in a relationship. They say, "Oh, we have sex." Okay, so that's the sexual part, right? There's the sexual intimacy, but tell me about the other intimacy, the stuff that you don't, the stuff that you're doing when you're not having sex. That's intimacy, right. So um, In the book that you describe the Use Your Mouth: Pocket Sized Conversations to Simply Increase Seven Types of Intimacy In and Out of The Bedroom. I described what intimacy means outside of sex, but also includes sex as a part of intimacy, not just intimacy. Right. So I described intimacy as a long time ago, I remember reading something, I don't remember where I read this at, then I thought about it. And intimacy is being seen, being heard, being valued, being understood, and it's in turn, seeing your partner, hearing them, valuing them and understanding them, because the goal of intimacy is connection, right? So we're always connecting with our partner or finding ways to connect with them, whether that is in the bedroom and out of the bedroom, and what a lot of people don't recognize, what we do out of the bedroom determines how good we do in the bedroom.

Robin | Yes. [laughs] That was such an insight for me, and it makes perfect sense. Yeah, you know, as a therapist, you've said your clients come to you. And they'll often say, you know, we have a communication problem. It's so common, right? But what you're saying is, this often translates to we have a connection problem. Absolutely. You have to ask the right questions to improve the connection.

Shamyra | Exactly.

Robin | What I thought we would do is go through the seven ways that intimacy, like seven different types of intimacy, one by one, and then we have some community questions that have come in for you that I will ask, as we speak about these different types of intimacy. But I just think it's, I love your book, use your mouth, I really I just want to say I know it's pocket-sized but every page, there's so much in it. So I would recommend anybody to pick this, pick this book up and keep it next to your bed, right? [laughs] Why not?

Shamyra | Keep it next to your bed, put it in your purse, put it in your back pocket. That's why I made it pocket size, right? Because when people were asking about intimacy, and they were looking for a book, what they made it clear was that they didn't want to read another self-help novel. They wanted practical, insightful stuff that they could use today, especially after making the cards they were like, we will set up like the cards but in a book, I said "I got you." I know exactly what you're looking for. And they're like, "Ah, you delivered. You did it." Right? So like you said, it is small but mighty.

Robin | Absolutely. So the first type of intimacy is emotional intimacy. So can you tell us what encompasses emotional intimacy?

Shamyra |Yeah, so some people might say that emotional intimacy is the biggest part or the most important form of intimacy for them that gets all of the other forms of intimacy in line. So in a nutshell, emotional intimacy is basically what I just described, when I was talking about intimacy. It's, How safe are you with and for your partner? And when I say safe, I mean, are you a soft place to land? Do you recognize and accept accountability? Do you pull your portion of the relationship? Do you meet your partner where they need to be met? Do you provide that emotional security in the relationship? And most importantly, are you and your partner vulnerable contributors in the relationship? Which means are you raw? Right? Are you emotionally risky? Are you taking emotional risks? Or are you avoiding things to go along to get along? How do you in the relationship... Emotional intimacy is all about how do you engage in conflict? How do you recover in the relationship together and individually? So that is what I'm saying when I'm saying emotional intimacy, what I'm talking about is the security and the stability of the relationship.

Robin | Definitely, you said the lack of emotional intimacy in a relationship can make or break the relationship because the levels of vulnerability and security that need, you need those two things to sustain a long-term relationship.

Shamyra | Yeah.

Robin | The other thing you did, which I read was I thought, wow, this is good, is, you know, if you're coming to your partner with anything that's from that place of vulnerability, and you need to talk to that person. Like, are you holding your breath? While you're having these discussions, these hard discussions which you're inevitably going to have on a regular basis.

Shamyra | On a regular basis, right.

Robin | And that does come from, that is like, do you recognize that this person is safe to talk to about really anything? because, and I really thought that indicator of are you holding your breath? Are you able to actually use your voice? Right? This is, I mean, the name of your book is Use Your Mouth. But are you really able safely? Do you feel safe having those hard conversations?

Shamyra | Right. And when we say safe Robin, you know, we're not talking about like, just necessarily physically safe, we mean emotionally safe like, is this a place that is welcoming to my opinion? To my thought? Or will I be shamed for my opinion? Will I be titled a complainer, because I have an issue? Or is my partner someone who understands that it's okay, if I have a complaint or an issue and it doesn't mean that is their fault or something for them to fix? It means that it's time to listen, it means that it's time for us to acknowledge whatever the issue is, and figure out what our next steps are. It's a way to problem-solve.

Robin | Yeah, the other thing you say is about feelings. And I really like this, the feelings want to be experienced and released but we tend to want to hold them hostage. So can you talk about this, please?

Shamyra | Well, I mean, especially in this era, of, Insta therapy, and social media therapy, where people throw around phrases like, "everything is about your feelings" that's just not true. You know, we can't go around thinking that our feelings run the world, or we need to just, I tell people all the time, feel your feelings, right? So feelings, they want to be felt experienced and let go, right? So we feel our feelings we feel, deal and heal, right? That is the process. It's not feel, feel, feel, it's feel deal and heal, we feel our feelings, we deal with whatever the consequences are, and we heal from it if necessary. So when I say experience, and release, I mean, if I am feeling disconnected from my partner, and I'm like, you know, I have been feeling really disconnected from you, because you've been on your phone a lot lately, especially when we are supposed to be having couples time or our hour, and I'm just not feeling very close. If you spend most of your time in the space of I'm disconnected, I'm disconnected. It doesn't matter what your partner does, you are going to still have this thought of I'm disconnected. And it doesn't necessarily mean that you're still feeling disconnected in that moment. But you're bringing it all over the relationship and expecting your partner to walk on eggshells or punishing them because of something they did two days ago that they are now trying to fix, but you won't allow them to. So when I say experience and let go, it's noticing what's happening in your body. "Oh, I'm feeling uneasy about this. I'm getting an attitude." Right? "I am about to go off because you're not paying attention to me." And then where is this feeling coming from? "Oh, I don't feel connected. We're supposed to be watching the movie and they're on their phone." Let them know. You know, "I'm feeling disconnected because I want us to watch this movie and you're on your phone. Can we spend this time together?" Let it go once your partner and you decide to fix it, or it's acknowledged. Let it go.

Robin | Yes.

Shamyra | Move on.

Robin | Yes.

Shamyra | Stop robbing the moment because you want to stay in those feelings. No.

Robin | That's right. Yeah. So in the book, I really liked the fact that you've got these questions that you can pose to each other, to see if you're on the same page with emotional intimacy. So I just jotted down a few, which I thought were good for pointing out where your EI is at. [laughs]

Shamyra | Your EQ.

Robin | Yep, your EQ. So number one would be what can I do to help you feel good about yourself? I like that you're actually just posing okay, what can I do to help you feel better? Right? How can I be more supportive of your feelings? And how would you describe the way I express my feelings? You might, you know, these are just I really liked the fact that you've got these pointers on how you can, you're engaging in these conversations to get to know each other better, really. And see how things are going, checking in.

Shamyra | Absolutely, checking in and establishing that connection. When we talk about our relationships or we talk about sex. We tend to like each other more and we tend to like it more because we learn more about each other and we're able to be vulnerable, especially if our partner is accepting us and hearing us and understanding where we're coming from. We connect when we talk.

Robin | Yeah. Well, so we've got a community question. This question is, a lot of times when we're asking for things from our partners, we are trying to feel connected without always realizing that is what we are seeking. Do you have any tips for folks in the community who have a hard time expressing their needs in their relationships?

Shamyra | Yeah, that is powerful. Sometimes we do like the things that we do. We're, we are looking for ways to connect, right? And so The Gottman's call it bids for connection, right? So we're throwing out things and we're trying to connect with our partner, and they're not picking up on it. And it's because our partners aren't mind readers right? So we also have to recognize when do our partners and be self-aware and recognize when it's time for us to make time for our partner, but it's important for us to call things up and to call them out to your partner right? Or to call them in with your partner. So versus a call out, call them in right, have a call in, where you talk about what your experience is just like I just described, the feeling of disconnect, right? When you say you don't feel connected, what does that mean? Because here's the other thing to connection, a lot of times, this even happens in my relationship. And a lot of times, I'm like, oh, yeah, I want to spend more time, let me tell you something, my husband and I spend all the time together, like, all the time, especially during the past two years, we're always in the car together, we're always going to pick up food, we're watching a show, the rare times that I do get to watch a show. However, that is a lot of like I said, that's a lot of time. But it's not necessarily intentional and the difference is quality time versus quantity time. It's quality connection versus quantity, right? So it's not about how much or how often we do but it's about what do we do when we have this time? And how are we facilitating it? So if what couples really like, what people really like, what makes them feel really connected, is intention. So saying, hey, let's plan a date. Or I want to spend more time with you or I want to watch a show with you or let's go take a ride. Call it a date. People love words, right? We love prettying things up, call it a date. Let's go on a date, where we just go around to different restaurants getting to go food and let's eat in the car. We do that all the time. But once you call it a date, oh it's a different thing.

Robin |It makes it more special.

Shamyra | Yes!

Robin | I like that. So the second type of and actually, this, I think has, this is what we're just talking about right now is social intimacy. Right? And it's vital to continue dating in a relationship. Like, do you do talk about that. I think the longer you're together, or you know, all the busyness that a lot of us are consumed with, you know, children, jobs, everything else. It's like you're not dating anymore. I really liked that idea. It's not, it doesn't have to be this formal thing where you're every week on Friday night? No, no, like, a lot of us cannot. So get in the car and make it a date. Hey, I really liked that. Or you can just make an appointment on the couch thinking "Okay, tomorrow night at seven o'clock we're gonna watch this half an hour show together. It's a date." Okay!

Shamyra | It's all about shifting, right? Just shifting our perspective and reframing the way we do things. As you said, it doesn't have to be, you don't even have to spend money. Dates don't always have to cost. And you're right that's the social intimacy that I talk about in the book is being able to share a connection and share time to build the connection with your partner in an intentional way,

Robin | Yes. So the third is financial intimacy, which I imagine in your practice, you are dealing a lot with the challenges that couples have in this area. Right? So this is sharing the same economic values as a partner and being financially responsible.

Shamyra | Correct.

Robin | Well, I imagine there are a lot of people that don't share the same financial values, and you didn't know that going in or... right?

Shamyra | Well, that is the problem. When you don't know and you don't share the same financial values. That is often a problem for many people, especially people who value financial stability and security in relationships. And one of the reasons why we rarely talk about money or a couple of reasons we don't talk about money in relationships is because especially if you're a woman, it's seen as being a gold digger, right? Or it's you're gonna use me. Why are we bringing up money? But also the way that we are conditioned to view money, like what our money story is, has a lot to do with how we manage money and how we converse about money, and how we bring it up in relationships. And what we know about finances in relationships is that is the number one cause for separation and divorce in relationships is financial issues. And if we got on the same page about finances before we decided to commit, but to make this a condition of commitment, we will see less people with financial issues going into the relationship because you want to you got to create financial goals as well. You can't be with a partner, and then you met them, they were going to the casino every weekend, every week, they're going to the casino. And then when you get married, every week, they're going to the casino, and now you have a problem with it, because of this commitment you've made. And now you see that there's a bigger responsibility that is needed from them. But you have never talked about that. And so you know, they're gonna say, "Well, this is how you met me."

Robin | That's right. I was always open and honest about it before and now you've got a problem.

Shamyra | Now you've got a problem with it. So we have to talk about this stuff.

Robin | So this, I really, this is, you said, a lot of people. And of course, we've all heard this before, I don't care how much money someone makes, or has.

Shamyra | It's a lie.

Robin | I love them because of who they are. Well, I get it. But I don't think so. Because finances are very, a very important part of the relationship. So you better make sure that you're on the same page.

Shamyra | You know, people say that, but tell me what can we do without money here? What can we do without money all over the world? You can't do nothing without money. You can't pay your bills with love. [Robin laughs] I love you to death but these bills, there going to keep coming. And I'm gonna keep loving. But I can't transfer the love I have and the love you give to the bank account and to these bill collectors. So I'm gonna need you to have a coin.

Robin | [laughs] I love that. So, I like this, you say "being financially fit is sexy." It sure is. So what if you're not financially fit? You know, you come into this relationship you've got, you've got student debt, you've got you know, you've made your mortgage. I mean, we all have mortgages right? Most of us do. So what if you're not great with money? So how do you recommend couples approach this?

Shamyra | Well, I mean, I do have those questions that you ask in the book, but lots of couples are not good. And people, in general, are not good with money, have money issues as well. And so a great way to address this is to first acknowledge that, you know, I struggle, when it comes down to budgeting, I struggle when it comes down to paying bills on time or saving money. Also, what's really serious about money is, a lot of people don't even make enough money to take care of all that's needed to take care of like, there aren't people like a lot of people don't even make a living wage, because it's not even offered. So by default, lots of people are in a space of struggle when it comes to finances. However, we still have to acknowledge that, we still need to make a plan for how we're going to deal with the financial woes of the relationship. And talking to a financial advisor. There are lots of free programs now, lots of free budgeting tools and apps like Wave like You Need a Budget. So use those programs, talk to your partner, use those programs, I know, they taught us about the Pythagorean Theorem, they didn't teach us about budgeting and taxes in school. And so now, we don't know we don't need pi 3.14. We need to know how to calculate these bills, how to calculate income to debt, how to understand that, and how to pay it down. So one way to do that is, as a couple, is to collaborate on a plan on a way to deal with it like with someone who is a professional, who's probably not going to cost you a lot of money because of course that's the issue in the first place. Start with using the free tools and the free advice that's out there with local libraries, lots of information online that you can Google as well.

Robin | Yeah, the bottom line is it's really important to be on the same page when it comes to this.

Shamyra | It doesn't matter if you have $5 or $5 million, you gotta be on the same page when it comes to them.

Robin | So the fourth type of intimacy is spiritual intimacy, and you know, you're really clear this is not necessarily sharing the same religious views. This is about feeling a sense of purpose and connection to each other and how we relate on a soul level to our partners. Yeah, this is a big one. This comes down to sharing your core values and you do talk about collaborating, not compromising on your core values.

Shamyra | Yeah.

Robin |So can you, can you can we talk about, you also say that spiritual intimacy really is about working on becoming the best partner you can be. And really about having integrity. This is so simple, but it's...

Shamyra | Yeah, it's about having that integrity, but also the emotional intelligence that goes along with it right? To be able to be a partner, a contributing partner, which is why I say it is best to collaborate than compromise. So when we think about compromise, and some people might see that as the same thing, but I don't, because when I think about compromising, when I see this in session with couples, someone always feels like they lose, and then they start keeping count. Right? So it's like, well, the last three, the last three times, you asked me to do this, I did it, can you at least do something for me this one time? Right. And so it's, I keep losing because I'm compromising versus collaboration, which says, How do we do what's best for the relationship? Because, again, the goal of your relationship is growth. So how do we do what's best for our relationship? How can we grow with this? And so you make decisions together based on what's best for the relationship. And so social intimacy is just that sense of peace and purpose that you have in a relationship. Like I say, in a book, it's like, you meet someone for the first time every time, right? It's having those butterflies in your stomach. It's recognizing that this person doesn't just come with potential they call an action, right. And the action really speaks to me on a level on an inexplicable level. I can't explain it but I really appreciate it. And I really like it. And it makes me a better person, because of the way they not only love me, but the way that they love themselves. And because of this, I am connected to this person's purpose. And that is what spiritual intimacy is all about. That is what love is all about. It is being connected. But also, it is being concerned with someone's purpose. Like, I am in love with you, because I'm in love with your purpose.

Robin | Mmm. Yeah.

Shamyra | And it's just that commitment to their purpose, right? Because they, as I said, they don't just come with potential, right? They come with purpose and action. So it's seeing the action because of whatever their purpose is. It's recognizing the action that comes with that purpose and seeing how passionate they are, recognizing their character, and it illuminates right and it transfers between each person in the relationship. And it creates this connection and this bond of peace, that where your relationship is built on that goal, that purpose, right. And so now you're just enthralled and not enmeshed. But you're just enthralled in each other's purpose. And once you connect it to each other, to someone's purpose. It doesn't matter how long you're together are how long you say you love them. Even if the relationship ends, you still love them in perpetuity, because love is about the purpose and not the person.

Robin | Oh, I like that. I love that. That's beautiful. One of the questions that you have in this section that you can ask your partner is, how can I be a better partner today? I like that.

Shamyra | That'd be great a question the ask every day like in your "good morning beautiful" text messages, skip those or add to those. Don't skip them. Don't skip them. Don't say like "Shamyra told me not to send good morning beautiful texts anymore. Send those, but also ask because we have different needs every day, right? So you can like tweak that. How can I be a better partner? How can I love you better today? What's one need? What's one wish I can great today?

Robin | Oh, I like that. I like that a lot. Yes. So the sixth is physical intimacy. This is different than sexual intimacy, which you point out, and it does get intertwined right? People can often mistake them. Right? Because they are different things and this satisfies our need for touch and skin hunger. I'd never read that before when I read that "skin hunger" as well all have an innate need to be touched and that's like a lifelong need right? Like you point out as children as babies. We, like it's a human need to be touched and that's that human connection. And a physical touch signals I see you and you are valuable. I love that, when you pointed that out. When you go hug somebody or touch somebody, really it's translating to I see you and you are valuable. And I really that was powerful when I read that.

Shamyra | Absolutely, touch is absolutely important in relationships and especially touch that is just touch.

Robin | That's right. It's not just always wanting, like touching your partner, so that it leads to sex.

Shamyra | Yeah, absolutely.

So it's not just, you feel that touch? I'm gonna rub on you because I want to have sex with you in about 13.2 seconds. But it's not that touch. But it's just a touch just because I like you, right? Not necessarily because I love you. But because I like you. Why? Because I, I value you. And I connect with you in this way. And again, skin hunger is a thing, our skin gets hungry. So if we're not touched, often, we feel a bit detached, we feel disconnected, we may not know that is because of a lack of touch. But a lot of us are suffering from a lack of touch. And there are ways that we can satisfy that need without a partner. And I'll tell you some ways in a second, or in a few minutes, but we need to make sure that we are connecting through touch through physical touch in our relationship. Some partners have relationship rituals, where they pass each other, and they smack each other on the butt. I just was touching my partner before I started this, like I love his arm. So I'm always grabbing on his, he has some really big arms. And I'm always like, grabbing on his arms. We were talking about a football player that's been in the media a lot lately, and today and I was like, I bet his arms aren't this big. So you know, I was touching on him a lot. And he rubs my back. I'm sure I'm a kitten because I like to be scratched.

Robin | [laughs] That's so sweet.

Shamyra | And I like my back rubbed. And that actually feels very connecting. And when we see each other, we hug for a long time. And before we leave, we hug each other for a long time as well. I challenge everyone who's listening to this, whomever you are right now listening to this, the next time you see your partner hug them for 20 seconds, at least 20. I know I say 6, a 6 second hug, 10 second hug, try 20 seconds. Hugs are healing as well. They can be very healing and powerful because of the physiological response that happens in our bodies. And one thing I talk about in the book is the skin-to-skin contact that is done between babies and parents. When babies are born and the purpose of that. We need skin-to-skin contact, even as adults, right? So think about that. And if you are thinking, You know what, Shamyra were you telling people to do this, I don't have no partner who gonna touch me? No worries, you can touch yourself [laughs] all pun intended. But here are some ways to satisfy the need to be touched. One way is using a weighted blanket, right. So laying down a weighted blanket on you, or putting on a heavy robe, like a heavy cotton robe. Extra points if it's warmed up, like pop it in a dry with some socks and put those on. And it helps you to feel a little grounded because that's what touch does, it helps to ground us, right? So putting on those socks, putting on a heated or an electrical blanket, wrapping your arms around yourself, tapping yourself. Also, if you're into tapping, that's a great way to feel grounded when you don't have a partner to do this. Just any warmth. Throw blankets are really helpful, weighted blankets. Anything that you can envelop yourself into, to feel a bit more grounded, is helpful.

Robin | I like that. I like all those tips. Just a simple question you could ask your partner or even just think about with yourself if you're not with someone, is how do you like to be touched outside of sex? And you know, you might be surprised at what you hear when you ask that question of somebody else. Yeah, right?

Shamyra | Absolutely.

Robin | So the seventh is what all of us really want to learn more about? [both laugh] It's sexual intimacy.

Shamyra | Yeah! [sings] Let's talk about sex!

Robin | Oh, my goodness. So you say sex is mental, physical, spiritual and emotional erotic connection between those involved, the way you show up in the relationship overall can play a significant factor in your sexual relationship. And I think that is one of the greatest lessons that you teach, is that, like the beginning of our conversation, if all like all those other six that we just talked about, if you're really strong in those areas, your sexual experience in the bedroom together is going to be so much better.

Shamyra | Correct.

Robin | So, one of the questions that we have from our community is, Women and men have different ways that deepen a connection or connect in intimacy. It seems that when women have sex with a man, they're suddenly more connected, even if they aren't in a relationship. Right? It seems men don't have the same feelings when it comes to sleeping with someone. In your opinion, what is the main thing that deepens a man's connection to a woman? Or what is their main act of creating deeper intimacy? So if a woman like I think, because that is true, right, that women?

Shamyra | Well, it's because of hormones, right? The hormones that are released, do different things in our bodies, right? So for a lot of women, when the bonding hormone is released, like so when we're released, when we're having sex, our brain releases these endorphins and these chemicals, right? And so one of them is the connecting or bonding or love hormone, right? So oxytocin, when it's released, it makes us feel more connected to our partner, it makes our like, if we are someone who is female, we might feel more connected, just because of the nature of how the hormone affects us. And if we're male cis people, it makes them go to sleep, right? It makes them go to sleep. And so then we have dopamine, right? So dopamine is the feel-good hormone, that's the hormone that lights up the part of the brain when we eat chocolate, or if, if we, if our partner gives us a compliment, right? So it's that high part of the brain in the way our bodies respond to the chemicals helps us to connect and not connect with each other. And I don't mean that I'm giving people who are men, I'm not giving men an out when it comes to connecting. Because there are different ways, like you said, like, the community member said, there are different ways that we connect with each other. But during sex, when oxytocin is released, it makes us feel a little bit more connected. It's called the bonding hormone, right? So it makes us feel bonded together with our partner, it makes our partner feel like going to sleep. So, that's why they often go to sleep. But what ultimately connects us relationally is not necessarily the same thing that connects us sexually. So relational connection and sexual connection, are often different types of connection because we can have great sex with people we don't want to be in a relationship with, right? And sometimes we can be in a relationship with people who just don't do it for us sexually as much. So it depends on like I said, all of those other ways that we have to connect in a relationship, and what's happening in those ways. Because a lot of times people think that sex determines what happens in the relationship, and it's totally the opposite. Whatever, when we when a person comes in, and they say, you know, me and my partner, we've not been having as much sex, we're not connected, we feel like roommates. Can you help us have more sex? Like, is that what you're really wanting? To have more sex? Because what else is going on? What's going on in the relationship? And tell me about the sex before this happened? Oh, we were having sex often. Okay, well, what happened? What made you realize that you weren't having as much sex? Well, we started fussing about it, and we were... okay, well, what's going on in the relationship? And did we realize that you don't have a great connection outside of sex? So if you don't have a great connection outside of sex, if you're not, including that social intimacy, you're not finding ways to be intentional with your partner. And if you're only touching them, when you want to have sex, and if they aren't having sex that feels good to them, they aren't orgasming when they have sex, if it's not pleasurable, guess what? They're not going to want to have sex with you. I'm not gonna keep going to the same amusement park if I'm not amused.

Robin | Yes.

Shamyra | Okay. So it's all about finding, where's the breakdown in the relationship that might be contributing to the reason why we're not connecting in the bedroom? And if you get the book or read the book, then you might be able to identify, or something might pop out. Or you might say, You know what, this is, I need this, I need this section, we need to talk about this type of intimacy, because you know, what we every month we're behind in bills. And what might need to happen is you might need to do some shifting in roles. I know you're responsible for paying the bills every month. But we're noticing that we keep getting these late notices and disconnects. What if I did it, and what if you did this one because you're better at this than me. When you focus on the strength in the relationship that also makes the sex better because you have less things to worry about. So when you think about sex, and you think about the connection in the relationship, and if that's not there. Where is the relationship disconnected in what areas and that is where you focus. You don't focus on sex. Sex is not the issue.

Robin | Yeah

Shamyra | It's not about the sex, I promise you.

Robin |So, you said sexual intimacy involves Whatever forms of erotic stimulation a person determines that brings them sexual pleasure. So it's so important to know, what turns your partner on, even if you've been together for a long time because obviously, that can change over time. Right?

Shamyra | Yeah, absolutely.

Robin | So you list touch, masturbation, kinks, fetishes. BDSM. Like, I don't know, I really don't know much about, like some of those things, right. But my partner may be into that. So it's important to have these conversations. [laughs] Yes, and that's really what this is about. It's about sitting down and being like, Okay, I know, we've been together for 20 years, or whatever, however long it's been, and things may be a little bit, not great in the bedroom. So we really need to talk about this, or do you want like, do you want to entertain getting into kink? Or what are your fetishes? Those sorts of conversations? It could be embarrassing in the beginning because you don't know. But really, it's such an important conversation to have.

Shamyra | It is because you get to learn more about your partner and yourself. And like you said, you don't have to act on these things in order to know them. You can know them for the information and may be in the future because we change our desires change, fantasies change, things that we said we would never do. We're pros at them.

And things that we say we want to do just not right now, we might not ever do. So that's why use your mouth was created. It's to get the conversation started. So that you can have the intimacy that you desire in your relationship.

Robin |Yeah. So let's talk about scheduling sex. We talked about this during the Instagram Live. And I'm, I'm a huge advocate of this because I believe yes, if it's important, you prioritize it. And if you're not having it, well, then you better schedule it right? You know, what the funny thing is in my mind, I went to this place of like, okay, Friday, you know, 9pm. No, that's not it. That's not what you're talking about.

Shamyra | No. It's not Friday, look, put me on your calendar. Get your phone out. Okay. Well, that's Friday, what you got on you. Okay. That's not gonna work. It's not okay, look Friday. 9pm be in the bedroom, on your back, missionary, three and a half minutes. No.

Robin | No, no, no! This could be as simple as you know, I'm taking the kids to school. I'll be back at you know, 830. You got 10-20 minutes? Okay, perfect. Like, that's okay, you're actually scheduling it because you're talking about it beforehand. What you're saying...

Shamyra | You're agreeing, you're talking and agreeing on it. Yes.

Robin | It's not all about like 100% spontaneity, because it probably is not going to happen. So actually, the scheduling piece, you're not talking about, like weeks in advance., It could be literally like half an hour beforehand. Okay, we're scheduling it for now. Or later on tomorrow afternoon. I've got a break in my schedule.

Shamyra | Yeah, yes, absolutely. It's about making, it's about prioritizing it in a way that works for you. Because, like, we know, couples are busy, especially couples, with families and children and careers. You're busy. And sometimes sex is put on the side as a result. And if we want to make sure we're prioritizing sex, because it's important to the relationship, then you might need to schedule it right? It's might be okay. And it might look like every Saturday because the kids are going to be swimming. So every Saturday between 10 and 12. That's our time, right? Or, you know, we're going on a date tonight and maybe after the date. Don't eat, if you want to have sex, do not eat a lot of food on a date, you're gonna be too full. But it's all about that intention behind it. Right? So people talk about spontaneity, it's a myth. In long-term relationships or in relationships where you have children, spontaneity doesn't always happen, especially like what other things are we doing spontaneously in our relationships? Like, we rarely engage in things we don't just show up at the salon and say, "Hey, I'm here. I want you to cut my hair at 10 am." Girl, you gotta schedule an appointment. So you're not getting your hair cut up here at 10 am. Right? So we rarely do things spontaneously. And why are we putting so much pressure on having spontaneous sex? Who told us that we had to have sex spontaneously?

Robin | Well, it's the movies. [laughs]

Shamyra | Well, we know that movies are fake. So that's not it.

Robin | Yeah, yeah, absolutely.

Shamyra | Let's always do what works for us. Once you figure out the secret of a relationship is doing what works for you. I'm telling you, you're gonna fly. And you're gonna have all the sex that you need, that you want to have because it's going to be sex that works for you. And once you start communicating about sex and talking about what sex is to you, and what it means to you, and what you determine is sex and how to have sex even when intercourse isn't an option, right sexual intimacy, as I talk about in the book, you will see that your relationship is going to feel much lighter. Because you're going to release yourself from the bondage and the pressure of sex.

Robin | Yeah.

Shamyra | Of what you think sex is and the only thing that's left is pleasure.

Robin | Oh, I really, really like that. So, we're gonna switch the topic here. I mean, it's really it's not really switching the topic at all. But I wanted to talk to you about ethical non-monogamy, because, you know, I've got friends that are single women looking for a partner. And they're telling me that they're seeing this in profiles that people are listing, either I'm interested in, whether they are married and they're looking for another partner, or they want it and they're single. So we've recently seen a rise in ethical non-monogamy, and more people are engaging in and talking about it. Can you tell us what it is and what tools you use in counseling couples who are interested in opening their relationships?

Shamyra | Yeah, so ethical non-monogamy is non-monogamy. It's also called consensual non-monogamy. And so this basically, of course, is the opposite of monogamy. So it means that you and your partner decide to have a non-monogamous relationship. Hence ethical, right? So it's not, I'm doing this and my partner doesn't know I have another partner that lives in another city and I see them on the weekend and my partner doesn't know. It's, we made a mutual agreement. And consent is involved. And we have an agreement about this. And so this is one of my specialties in my practice. And so even before it became as popular in mainstream media or in pop culture, people were engaging in ethical non-monogamy and other forms of non-monogamy so there's polyamory, there's an open relationship, there are swinging relationships, there's you know, a relationship that's kinky and BDSM. So of course, in swinging relationships, that's when couples meet up with other couples to have sex and so this is often considered a lifestyle right and referred to as the lifestyle because in swinging relationships it often happens in swinging clubs or on trips. So, and often couples who engage in swinging, usually have specific people that they swing with, right? And swinging is, we used to call it partner swapping. So right? There's hard swapping, where you are going all-in where you are having intercourse and they're soft swapping, where you talk about what you're not going to do. Usually, it's probably oral sex, and some other types of sex, right? And then there are open relationships where you aren't necessarily in a romantic relationship with a specific person, but you have an agreement that you can have sex with other people. And then there's polyamory, where it, of course, polyamory means multiple loves, but polyamory, which means different things to different people, which means that you are in simultaneous romantic relationships. So the difference between polyamory and open relationships is the romantic relationship aspect. So you're likely in some form of a romantic relationship with the goal of being in long-term situations with people. Sometimes your partners are involved, and sometimes they are not. So there are different options and rules and different types of relationships that go into these relationship styles. And so when couples ask about it, I always ask them to consider there "why." When you think about opening up a relationship or going into an ethically non-monogamous relationship style always consider your "why." What's my reasoning for wanting to do this, right? Is it because I read it? I saw it in a movie and it looks fun or is it something that my partner and I have been talking about? How do you bring it up with your partner? Right? That's another question that people often have, is how do I bring this up with my partner? We've been monogamous for 37,000 years, how do I bring this up to them without them feeling like I want to walk out on them, or I'm going to cheat. And so again, that's where having regular conversations about the relationship comes into play, which is where you could use the Use Your Mouth cards, which is different from the book. But the cards help you to have ongoing conversations about sex and your relationship. And so you can ask them, you know like I read something about people being polyamorous or having this type of relationship. Have you heard, what do you hear about it? Have you heard anything? What are your thoughts on this? Here are my thoughts on it. So, it starts with a conversation. Some therapists who specialize, and when I say specialize, I just mean that you know, as an AASECT certified sex therapist, I have received extensive and ongoing, currently specific training to be able to understand different lifestyles and different types of sexual diversity. So that just means that we are a bit more knowledgeable about this, but we are not experts on anybody's individual lives. So what we do is, help you navigate what this looks like for you in your own life. So one way to see what this might look like is to read the book Opening Up, there's a good book to read about just opening up the relationship and just different types of ethically non-monogamous relationships that are out there.

Robin | Excellent. One of our community questions is my girlfriend implied that if she were to sleep with a woman, it wouldn't be cheating, as it's with someone of the same gender. I don't feel like that's true. We're in a monogamous relationship and I expect neither of us to have sex with anyone else. I don't really know what else to say about it to her any advice?

Shamyra | Absolutely. I mean, you said it. So one of the things that come up. And another question from the card deck is, what is your definition of cheating? A lot of couples assume what cheating is and they think, Oh, if you just have sex with someone else, but sometimes it's having secret conversations with other people, it depends on your relationship. And so you have to set the boundary, the cheating, I call it the cheating boundary, you have to set the cheating boundary in the relationship, where you talk about what cheating means for you. Because this is going to differ in many relationships. And you and your partner have to agree and understand what each person identifies or recognizes as cheating in the relationship. So if you are like, Listen, if you have any type of sexual contact with anyone, that's cheating for me. Can you agree that that's cheating and that that's something we won't do? Because that is a violation of our relationship. And so you have to have those conversations. So if you've been in a monogamous relationship for a long time, or a short time, and you've never had the cheating boundary conversation, this is a great time to say, "Listen, I was just listening to Real Love Ready and they were talking about cheating. What do you consider cheating? Is this? Would you consider this cheating?" Go off your list, check it down your list. "Would you consider this cheating? What about if a co-worker bought me a gift? Would you consider that cheating? What about if I went to lunch with someone you didn't know? What about if you were out of town, and I invited a group of people over that you've never seen before, and we all slept in the same bed together naked? But we didn't have any intercourse. Is that cheating?"

Robin | Yep. Well, it's clear from this question that the two of them have different definitions of cheating.

Shamyra Howard | They gotta get on the same page.

Robin | Yes, they do. So something you have also said is that there's still a lot of work to be done when it comes to therapists being more affirming, knowledgeable and accessible to LGBTQIA folks. Right? What changes would you like to see in the future around that?

Shamyra | Well, so one of those changes I would like to see is an increase in sex positivity amongst therapists, right? So be being non-judgmental, non-shaming, empowering, and supportive of people's sexual desires and sexual identities and lives, as long as they aren't harming other people. And that's it, I think we could be a bit more sex-positive, and we view sex in a more intersectional way, and take some of our own implicit bias out of it. And take a lot of all of the patriarchy out of sex and stop policing women's bodies, and amplify pleasure, I think I think we'd be better off as therapists who are able to support clients, we'd be able to support the sexual needs of our clients.

Robin | Yeah. Well, I'm just so incredibly grateful that we met and thankful for all the time that you've given us at Real Love Ready.

Shamyra | Oh anytime!

Robin | So where can everybody find you? I know, you've got your website called on the green couch. Quickly, where did you come up with? Is this because your therapy office has a green couch?

Shamyra | I have a green couch in my office. Absolutely. So my office was well, my practice was initially called conquest counseling, but I've always had the green couch. And so I would make posts on Instagram @sexologistshamyra and I would say today hashtag on the green couch we discussed and then I would list so many different issues that we discussed. And people would see me in Whole Foods or in a store in a neighborhood and they would say, "Hey, I need to come sit on that green couch and talk about - insert with every type of sexual issue they want us to talk about." And so I was like, You know what? I rebranded and I decided to go with on the green couch because that is what people identify the practice by. So yeah, I mean, onthegreencouch.com, you can go on my website and download a free simple communication form that I have there for you and your partner to get your communication on. But also, that's where you can find the book and use your mouth sex and relationship conversation starter cards and the dating guide. But if you want to come and just chill with me, come join me on social media. So I'm at @sexologistshamyra everywhere, so on Instagram, not everywhere, because I can do TikTok and all the other stuff. So just catch me on Instagram or Facebook and on YouTube.

Robin | Yes, well, we will and we will continue to work together Shamyra.

Shamyra | We will because I love talking to you! You have the best voice it's so calming and your aura is very inviting.

Robin | Oh thank you! I feel the same way about you!

Shamyra | Aww!

Robin | Thank you, Shamyra.

Shamyra | It's my pleasure, Robin.

Robin | Wish you the greatest day.

Shamyra | Same to you.

Robin | We'll definitely be in touch. Thank you again.

Shamyra | We'll do something soon. Okay, bye. Bye.

Robin | Please visit realloveready.com to become a member of our community. Submit your relationship questions for our podcast experts. At reallovereadypodcast@gmail.com We read everything you send. Be sure to rate and review this podcast. Your feedback helps us get you the relationship advice and guidance you need. The Real Love Ready Podcast is recorded and edited by Maia Anstey. Transcriptions by otter.ai and edited by Maia Anstey. We at Real Love Ready, acknowledge and express gratitude for the Coast Salish people, the stewards of the land on which we work and play, and encourage everyone listening to take a moment to acknowledge and express gratitude for those that have stewarded and continue to steward the land that you live on as well.

Transcription by https://otter.ai & edited by Maia Anstey