Let’s Talk Love Podcast Season 5 Episode 1 with Erin Skye Kelly | Transcript
28.09.23
This transcript is from the Let’s Talk Love Podcast, available in our Podcast Feed.
Robin Ducharme | Today I had the best conversation with best selling a uthor Erin Skye Kelly. We talk about her newest book, Naked Money Meetings, Ending Money Fights With Your Partner Forever. Erin has helped 1000s of people pay off millions of dollars in consumer debt and ultimately change their lives. Naked Money Meetings gets to the root of financial fights, teaching you how your money obstacles can manifest as money blocks. She helps us understand what our money blocks are, what our partner's money blocks are, and how by healing our own blocks, we can create healthy financial behaviors in our relationship. She says, your money fights are never really about the money. Erin breaks down what is happening underneath those financial feuds so that you can work together to build the life you envisioned. Increase your net worth, and create abundance in all aspects of your life. Erin is a delight to learn from. I hope you're inspired to read her books and continue to learning from Erin just as I am. Enjoy.
Welcome to Let's Talk Love the podcast that brings you real talk fresh ideas and expert insights every week. Our guests are the most trusted voices in love and relationships. And they're here for you with tools, information and friendly advice to help you expand the ways you love, relate and communicate. We tackle the big questions not shying away from the complex, the messy, the awkward and the joyful parts of relationships. I'm your host, Robin Ducharme Now, Let's Talk Love. Hello everyone and welcome to this episode of Let's Talk love. I'm so excited to have our guest today. Erin skye Kelly.
Erin Skye Kelly | Hi, I'm happy to be here with you. This is so cool for me.
Robin Ducharme | Erin, I feel like I know you already it. It's funny because, I didn't we didn't talk about this earlier. But you are, so my two best friends Karen and Kristen are good friends with you.
Erin Skye Kelly | You're that Robin? You know,
Robin | I am that Robin.
Erin | I feel like I know you
Robin | And you it's really funny Erin, so you went to school in Lethbridge. Right? Did you?
Erin | No, I know .
Robin | Oh, from radio
Erin | Power 107 I worked, at Power 107 Yes,
Robin | That's right. Okay. I just try to figure out where the where the link was
Erin | Because I'm such a fan of yours. I never made that connection. That's that's cool. We are meant to be friends.
Robin | I know we are and I've been listening to your podcast. I freaking love you. Like I feel like we are definitely friends already. Like because we already have joint friends but like we're we're seeing kind of girls and I'm a Calgarian myself. So we kind of understand you know, being Calgary, Albertans you know.
Erin | Yeah, that's right. I do live in the best part of the world right now though. So
Robin | I live in Victoria. I absolutely love it. I love going back to Calgary but I mean, I'm I'm definitely home and in Victoria.
Erin | Yes, I don't blame you. Yeah, jealous.
Robin | Okay, so you started out in the radio world. And I know like, I've had like five career six screws in my life. And I feel like I finally landed on the one. Okay, I'm rocking it now. But it took me a while. But tell us about your background? I mean, I love of learning from you. Like you're obviously a master when it comes to the work you're doing. And I'm just I love I love that. You I feel like you're in your zone. But tell us how you got to where you're at right now.
Erin | Well, when I My grandfather was a really big influence in my life. And he was really funny guy like, picture like a 300 pound Lebanese man with very strong opinions on women. And I had said to him, I really want to go into broadcasting. And he said, Oh, that's great. But one day, you're gonna have to do something else, you're gonna have to have something to fall back on because you're going to be old and ugly, and no one's gonna put you on TV. And it's like, okay, I mean, he didn't mean it as horrible as it sounds like what do you mean?
Robin | It's probably said with love like our girlfriends talk to us, you know, they're just so realistic. Yeah.
Erin | And so he introduced me to the concept of real estate investing, I was a teenager and he helped me purchase my very first piece of real estate before I was even 18. And you know, cosign the loan for me and then the minute I turned 18 like got himself off the loan and did all that but really introduced me to this concept of real estate investing, so always taught me about money. So the whole time I was working in radio, TV, that kind of thing. I always had mortgages and real estate and money on the side and then it just got to be this you know, this arc of so many other women kept coming to me for financial advice or information or they just wanted to kind of know how to take control of their own finances and so that just really led me out of that sort of I mean, I still podcast but broadcasting it led me out of that and into more the education side of things
Robin | Awesome.
Erin | All because he knew I was one day gonna look like this. So
Robin | Yeah, that's it. That's so funny. No, you're you're beautiful. I love your voice. You've got a radio voice for sure.
Erin | We were meant to be friends I'm telling you.
Robin | So you were a mortgage broker. You're a financial planner,
Erin | Mortgage broker. Yeah. Married to a Financial Planner. Yeah.
Robin | Yes. Oh my god, I just love it. So you've written I see your books behind you. And we said I, before we started recording, I'm like, I lost my book. I don't know where it went. But I promise you, it's somebody emailed us somewhere, Naked, Money Meetings, I loved your book, and I haven't read, Get The Hell Out of Debt. So that's what I have to read. Second, I know, you wrote that book first. And then now your second book is Naked Money Meetings. It's brilliant Erin, it really has, you know, like, it's one of those books that you want to keep on your shelf and turn to again and again, because it's, there's a lot of, there's a lot of tools, and a lot of ways that we can increase our wealth. And first of all, talk to us about your book, and why did you name it Naked Money Meetings, because obviously, I thought, you know, we're in a relationship where all the big, you're gonna get naked, and you're gonna, like, actually talk about money in bed. That's where my mind went. And I'm sure people will have bought that too. And they see the name, I thought, That's a brilliant idea. But maybe,
Erin | Well, mainly because when I wrote the book, Get The Hell Out of Debt that was really like more of a practical tactical guide to money. And I, myself had found myself in a lot of debt at one point and had to dig my way out of it. And so Get The Hell Out of Debt is kind of written into three phases, right? The first phase is all the financial fundamentals that you really wish you'd been taught when you were younger. Phase two is how to pay off your consumer debt for good if you have it. And then phase three is all about building wealth. But a lot of people who who come to my work are women, and then they have husbands or partners who aren't on the same page as them, and they're trying to get to a financial goal. And their partner's not really ready yet. And so I made a joke about well, when you have your budget meeting, you need to have it naked, because everybody will show up. And nobody can argue when your jumblies are out. The the whole people in the community that you know, follow Get the Hell Out of Debt, or do the online program or any of that stuff. They all started I'm having a Naked Money Meeting, I have a Naked Money Meeting. And what it came to mean is that like, I am going to be real and raw and vulnerable. And tell the truth about how things are like, I don't know about you, but like, I can wear Spanx and push up bras and lie to myself about what I actually look like. But the minute I stand naked in front of the mirror, it's like the truth is there, right? And it's the same with our money. Sometimes we can dress it up and pretend things are better than they are. But when we really get real about what's actually happening, really meaning like our behaviors and our habits around money, then we can actually transform in and build wealth and really improve our relationships given that most couples fight about money.
Robin | Exactly.
Erin | Yeah.
Robin | And what you are teaching in the book, what you're talking about, is money blocks. How we all have them, one or more. Or maybe we all like a scattering of all of them.
Erin | Yeah, yeah.
Robin | And how it's not just about a money block. They translate. This was a big learning for me. And actually, it makes perfect sense. Yeah. Is like you're translating that block into other areas of your life.
Erin | Yes. Yeah.
Robin | So this isn't just about money. That's the thing. Right?
Erin | Not I'm no, I'm, I'm like, you get it?
Robin | I totally get it. I read it. I was like, oh, yeah, I could see that.
Erin | Yeah, so what's happening in a lot of relationships, right. So let's say, let's say there's a couple, right, Sally and Mike and they fight about money all the time. And they kind of just they seem to constantly fight about the same things. What is actually happening is like, you know, she's not mad that he's overspending. And he's not actually mad that, you know, she's wasteful or whatever, what's actually happening at the root of that is a very deep underlying fear, or something, there's some kind of pattern there. And it usually forms in childhood, but sometimes it forms in young adulthood, but it's usually something early that's happened, an event has occurred, and that it caused you to feel a certain way you gave it some kind of meaning and attach some kind of emotion to it, and then it formed a pattern. And so there's a time when that pattern will work for you, which is why you do it. But if the pattern is a disempowering pattern, it'll set you up for self sabotage. So for example, we see this a lot in people who let's say they have a credit card that they keep racking up and paying off and racking up and paying off and they feel like they can't get ahead. There's an underlying money block there, something has happened, that made them feel or think a certain way about money that created this habit, and they're doing it unconsciously not even realizing they're doing it. And so when we looked at all the different potential blocks out there, we identified that there were eight major money blocks. And those blocks are driving your unconscious financial behaviors. And also they're they're driving really what's going on in your relationship, right? So for example, one of the money blocks is a lack block. There's a spend block, you know, a worthiness block a procrastination block, right, and they all represent different things. But the magic what I found through the years working with people is let's say Sally has a lack block and Mike has a worthiness block. I already know that those people have debt. They've got debt, because of the way their behaviors have shown up and how they interact with money. So when I find out what somebody's primary block is and what their partner's primary block is, I can tell them exactly what their fights are about. But I can also tell them how to heal their individual blocks, so that they can start to work together and find financial harmony, and then ultimately build more wealth.
Robin | I love that. I love it so much. And the book has, it has different sections, so you can learn about your block. First, understand why you've got it. Yeah. And then you can then you can go to how you're going to do take steps to heal that block.
Erin | Yeah.
Robin | And then you're going to understand your partner's block.
Erin | Yeah.
Robin | And then you're going to see how you're to mesh.
Erin | Yeah.
Robin | And then figure out how together you can tackle that. But more than more than anything, which I that was the other lesson I received when I read your book, because you say this quite a few times throughout the book, is like this is you gotta stay on your side of the street.
Erin | Yes.
Robin | And it's like, you're not you're not the block police.
Erin | Yes
Robin | You're here, you're here to work on your own stuff, which is the way it actually is in relationship with every anybody. We're not gonna change anybody. We can't change anybody. And that is a really, really hard, hard lesson. But it's like a lifetime lesson that I think we're all learning.
Erin | Yeah.
Robin | Right, right. I think I think I do my kids, like, you know, I, you know, I'm kind of nagging like I would with my partner, which I'm not with anymore. But that's a side note. But that doesn't work.
Erin | It doesn't work
Robin | When you change your own behavior, it there's going to be a natural fall for a follow up from that that's going to hopefully move things in a better trajectory.
Erin | Yeah, because you're in a pattern, you just have to think about, like any pattern. So you and your partner have been living out a pattern all changes from one person to change the pattern, and the pattern will change. And so when we can focus on ourselves, it's so much more magical than telling your partner what they need it. But I say I love who you are, like, you mentioned this a few times in the book, because the thing that often happens is as soon as one partner figures out their money, the first thing they want to do is be like, oh, I know what the problem is, you have a money block. And here's what you right. It's why we drag our partners to marriage counseling, not because we want to change but because we want the counselor to be like, you're right. You're right. And
Robin | And then there’s the coming of Jesus , if you’ve got the right therapist, and he's gonna be like, or she's gonna be like,
Erin | Yeah,
Robin | You're gonna look at yourself. Okay? This is because there's 50/50 here. Yeah. dynamics at play.
Erin | Yes.
Robin | So I can we go through, I would like to hear an example of an event that would have happened, let's say in somebody's childhood, that actually evoked that emotion that you talked about. And that brings, like, brings about that pattern or that block? Like I was thinking about to myself, because I like I did quiz. I love your quiz. And we're going to talk about that. But I just what I'd like to understand, because I was like, what are the events that might have happened in my life that brought on like, I've got the money guilt, and I've got the spending block. They're kind of even in numbers, and I was like, a little bit more in the guilt than the spending.
Erin | Right
Robin | But I'm like, what would have been the event in my life? I can't figure it out. But I'm going to talk to my therapist about it. I'm going to find out.
Erin | What's usually like, one of the questions we'll ask people is like, what's the earliest money memory you have? Or like, what's the earliest positive money memory you have? Or the earliest negative money memory you've had?
Robin | I've had positive money memories. I don't think yeah, I don't, I can't think of a lot of negative. That's why I was thinking, but
Erin | It doesn't always have to be negative that can form the pattern. Yeah, that's an important note. But what will happen is like, sometimes they're buried so deep that they don't even come up until you kind of start digging. So that's just something to be aware of. And an example of that would be we, you know, we have somebody in our community who had this moment, one day where she said, holy smokes, this all just came to me. She said I was seven years old, blended family. So mom had her and her sister. And then the stepdad had a couple of boys, blended family first Christmas together. And the two boys got 10 times more presents than the two girls got. And she says, now when she's looking at it through the eyes of an adult, she realizes, Oh, they spent probably the same amount of money on each kid, but to her when she was little, and she woke up on Christmas morning, and there was only a handful of presents. For her.
Robin | It was like the number rather than the amount.
Erin | Yes. And so she's like, hold now forever. She's been living out this pattern of I'm not worthy. So she she believes she doesn't deserve. And therefore whenever she gets like a paycheck or whatever, she's often giving it away or overspending it because she doesn't believe deep down she deserves wealth. So that's an example of an event right. It can it can be something so little as you know, you this happened to me when I was a kid, I went, I wanted to buy my little pony. I was saving up all my money. I went to the toy store in my hometown. It wasn't even a toy store. It was like a Value Drug Mart, but it had a toy section. And I went and I looked and it was it was sometime in the 80s right when GST became a thing but I didn't have the awareness to know that there was going to be tax on this, so I got up to the till having saved all this money. And what happened was, I didn't have enough when I got there, and I couldn't buy it because I didn't have enough for the tax. So I had to put it back on the shelf. And so that created this hard work block in me where I felt like, oh, in order to have something, I have to keep working harder in order to get it. So it can be anything, right, it doesn't have to be and I did eventually get the My Little Pony and I, you know, probably played with it for three weeks. And who knows. But, but anything can form that pattern. But when I really looked at I thought, Oh, that was really the start of me working two or three jobs doing two or three different things, always having side income on the side, like really not being able to really manage until I fully uncovered it, right trading time for money. And what happens for a lot of people that have that hard work block is they will you forget that you only have so much time in a week. And you can't possibly work all of those hours. So at some point, you have to practice leveraging your income to build wealth, and also free up your time, because you're missing out on so much life when you're constantly giving it away to work. Right. So anyway, those are just a couple of examples. But everybody will have the reason you've got the results you have in your life right now is because of a series of patterns or habits that you formed because of something you believed. And that belief system formed when an event happened. Yeah.
Robin | Yeah. And it's, I just, I really, I just accolades to you for writing this book. And I can't wait to read your first book, because I learned so much like, you know, I've got a business degree, I've got, you know, financial planner, I got finance meetings with my people on a regular basis. And I'm like, I didn't know that didn't know, that didn't know that didn't know that I'm gonna be talking to my people. No butI'm not blaming anybody but myself. I mean, this is why we do this. Like, it's always learning.
Erin | Yeah
Robin | There's always ways to improve. And by, okay, what I'd love to do, is just go through Coles notes on what each of the blocks the blocks are, because I think you're gonna want to know, and they may be able to identify, even like one or two, like, let's just do like one or two, like little quick snippets, because that means you've got there's so much in the book that people have to understand. But I think, like the Lack Block, for instance, like I wrote down one note about it, just two sentences, which I think actually really comes, brings it home, I never have enough. And that might just that might be just, like, if somebody has a lack block, they probably have a lack mentality in so many areas of their life. You're like that kind of a, they're not looking at life as abundant. They're looking at life as you know, the glass is half empty.
Erin | What am I put out?
Robin | We all know those kinds of people.
Erin | Yes we do.
Robin | Yeah. And this mentality, it blocks the flow of wealth in your life, because you struggle with receiving, you're not looking at the great. And then and then the way to solve that is like, looking at your blessings in life, what you do have which we can all make a list and just think about what you do have rather than what you're lacking.
Erin | Yes. You can even pick this up in non financial ways, right? When you see a woman who like really looks put together and you're like, oh, my gosh, she looked gorgeous today, I love your pants. And the minute they go, oh, I got these on sale, or oh, I had it right, the minute they try and deflect instead of simply receive, we know that there's a little bit of a lack pattern in there.
Robin | Right.
Erin | So one of the ways you can work on that is even just receiving compliments fully and completely without any excuses, right? Not like, all these pants are on sale, or I got them. Like we don't need to justify we can just simply receive that's like a powerful process for anybody that struggles with lack.
Robin | Yeah. I really, really liked that. Okay, that's the last block.
Erin | Yep. I love you doing them. You do them? This is great
Robin | The spend block
Erin | Yes,
Robin | Is I can't control my spending or the minute I receive money, I repel it and give it away.
Erin | Yes.
Robin | And this mentality.
Erin | Yeah. Go ahead.
Robin | You're consistently taking action that opposes financial accumulation. Okay, I'm gonna, I'm just gonna I just want to talk about something in my own personal life, because an example would be like, I have properties as well. So I sold my properties. And you know, money's in the bank, and I'm like, fucking A, I'm gonna, like, I can't wait to give this away. Like, I'm like, can't wait to share it. Right. But you know, that is coming from a place of love. Like, I will invest some of that reinvest some of that, but like the other chunk, I'm like, it's a good chunk of change, and let's just share the wealth. So is that blocked, or is it it? Like, there's just
Erin | It can be
Robin | It can be, I know, Erin this is why I need therapy. Because I'm trying to justify, because I feel like I feel like it's like too much for me to hold, like almost. And so I have to share a bit of what I want to share. I'm not sharing it all, but I'm definitely sharing quite a bit.
Erin | Right. And so what I would tell you to do is maybe, maybe just let's just be open to the possibility this is so fun. This is so good. Maybe just be open to the possibility that you could do more if you held on to it and had it generate some kind of dividend or interest that then you could give that away because you can hang on to it for longer. And the only reason why I say that is because you know for example, a lot of lottery winners end up broke right after because they have this spent block, the minute that everybody always thinks, oh, my problems are going to be solved when I win the lottery. But what we know to be true is if you know if we threw $10 million, in most people's laps, that money would be gone within two years, and they'd be right back in the same position they're in. Because the idea just like you said, right, when it when I have money, it almost creates anxiety in me, or it creates, like some kind of nervous system change. And I would feel better getting rid of some of it. So we can justify in a lot of ways, right? Like we can be altruistic about, I'm gonna give it to charity and give it to people I love, right? Maybe the answer is, especially it's been a struggle for a long time is we're going to be practiced at hanging on to it and growing it, so that we can do more with it later with intention rather than from a reactionary place. Yeah. And it shows up in small ways for some people too, right? Like some people, well, the minute their paycheck hits their account, they pay everybody else, right. They pay Visa, MasterCard, the electric bill, they pay everything, and then they have nothing left for themselves. So the strategy for you know, if you're in that situation is we're going to start paying yourself first and living on what's left. And we're going to build wealth that way. So there's a ton of different strategies for managing a spend block, but the most important piece is to be really aware of it, like you just explained.
Robin | Yeah. And I, you know, the, like, the strategies that you're talking about, Erin, I don't think a lot of people have any clue. I mean, you've got a big community that are learning these things. But I think, day to day, people, just not dating people, I don't mean that. But I mean, like a lot of us, we're not taught what you're talking about, like you give you give really good solid advice on, for instance, you like, we're gonna go through the other six blocks, but you get really solid advice, for example, on for instance, you want to save for your children's education.
Erin | Right
Robin | And most people think, all right, we're gonna max out the RDSP. Because that's what we learned, that's the government program, this is something that we, most of us aren't gonna do that, right. And then you give this other strategy where it's just like, well, you could buy a house, if you have a good you know, if you if you're able to do this with cash flow, there's all these, I don't really want to go into every single thing. But I was like, all that strategy is so brilliant, because at the end of the day, she was generating cash flow, because she had renters in there that were paying the mortgage plus giving her $200 a month extra on income. And by the time the kids were in school she had there, she had that money saved for their school. And she had an asset.
Erin | Yes, yeah. Absolutly
Robin | She had like, $180,000, or something in asset value. And I was like, Oh, my God, see, this is the kind of stuff that will build your wealth.
Erin | Yes, it will. Yeah. Yeah, I know. And it's, it's, most of it is accessible. Now, I always say that with a caveat, right? Because everybody's in a different spot. But but even understanding those concepts, right, if, if that particular strategy isn't for you, at least understanding it then helps you do the strategy that gets you there later, right? Like, really understanding the flow of money will, will help build those kinds of like larger, more extravagant strategies down the road. Yeah.
Robin | Yeah. I just think people need to read your books and follow your podcast and just do work with you, because there's just so much valuable information and tools that you're giving people. So third one, worthiness, worthiness block, which you already you already talked about. I'm not good enough to be wealthy.
Erin | Yeah, this one's very common, we see this quite often, or at least, it might not be people's primary block. But I really have seen that almost everybody has it to some degree. And it's mostly because of our raw human. And so our big fear is that, will I be enough? And am I lovable? And that underlying tone, when it shows up in our money really creates this idea that, you know, I don't deserve. And then when we don't believe we deserve, it's a lot harder to to build wealth.
Yeah. Yeah. comes up
Robin | So what would be the way that you can release that block? And I mean, this is not just like an overnight solution, right? You talk about that to in the book, Hello, people. This is a process, this is not a switch, you're gonna flip. And it's also it's like, you're always going to have that block. But it's, but hopefully, as you go through this, you're going to really, it's going to be less and less effective in your life.
Erin | Yeah, exactly. What it's like anything, you know, any work that you kind of do on yourself, right? Once you become aware of something, it's almost like you can't unsee it. You know what I mean? Like when you when you have a new level of knowledge. So even sometimes, when you catch yourself in a behavior, you can be like, Oh, that's my worthiness block showing up, you can make a new decision or make a new change. And then we basically just have to recondition a new pattern. Because we've conditioned this old pattern if we've been living with this idea that I don't deserve, I don't deserve. You know, I don't deserve a partner that treats me well. I don't deserve a beautiful home. I don't deserve to have the job. You know, I deserve to be treated like garbage from my boss, whatever it is, right? If you've been living that way for a long period of time, it's really tough to switch but you've trained yourself that that's okay. So when we switch it and we flip it, we now have to train this new pattern, is gonna feel uncomfortable. But just like you got used to the old way, which was ugly and not great and didn't give you the results you wanted, you can get used to the new way also just takes a bit of time. But this worthiness one is really it can be a challenge, because I think a lot of people think, oh, the solution is just to be like, I am worthy, I am worthy, and just say it over
Robin | And do the affirmations in the mirror every day.
Erin | Yeah, that's good. Yeah, it's helpful, it's helpful, like sort of know, on the side. And it's important to shift that thinking. But really what happens with worthiness, the way to really build confidence is through competence. So you just have to start making tiny decisions that basically promises that you keep to yourself over and over and over again, right. So if in the past, you would get your paycheck, and the first thing you would do is like, go spend it or you know, whatever, maybe the solution is, you know, I'm just going to take $20, I'm gonna put it in an exchange traded fund in my Tax Free Savings Account. And you just do that one or two times over and over and over again, and then you just really start to watch that money grow. And then you kind of get a handle of it, right. And then you're like, I'm gonna put 50 bucks in and apply it to you under bucks. And, and so you can start to make motion towards where you want to get with really tiny steps, but with consistency that eradicates that worthiness block so fast.
Robin | Brilliant. Okay, so the next one is the intelligence and skill block, which I think this is probably a lot of people to, I don't know, I don't have the skill. I'm not smart enough to be wealthy.
Erin | Yeah, I hate to say this, but I see it a lot on women. And I think it's because if we look historically, at women through history, it's really only been the last 50 years where women have even had access to their own money. Like, in my lifetime, the women who are in my life, in my lifetime, early years had to get husband's permission to get a bank account or credit card or buy a home. And it's fascinating, right? So it's like, there is old conditioning and old programming and women about, well, you got to ask a man's advice, or you've got it right. And we're getting to this place now where we're starting to realize, okay, there are more women that are rising up and talking about all these things. But it is very common that I'll see women trying to outsource their decision making rather than feeling confident, even in like you think of it even in a choice of like a haircut, like I'm thinking of cutting my hair, what do you think they'll consult with three or four other people, I'm like, it's your hair, it's on your head, right? We don't need a committee to decide. But just we have been taught or conditioned not to trust ourselves when it comes to this stuff. So the magic and all of it is we can switch that and really start to build self trust, because odds are, you are smart. And I mean, we all know somebody who's really stupid, who's built a lot of wealth. And we all know smart people who are dumb and broke. Sorry, we all know, you know, dumb people are, we know rich people who are dumb and smart, right? They're not related. But we often think, oh, I'm going to do that after I take this course, read this book, learn this thing. So we almost become like information junkies versus action takers. And so this one shows up in a lot of ways where you'll see people have a lot of knowledge. Like I know a lot of people that know a lot about crypto that don't own any crypto, or at least they have strong opinions on crypto, and they've never owned any right or I know lots of live opinions on the real estate market. But they're not in the real estate market. So it's just really interesting that when this block shows up, the solution to it is not more learning. The solution to it is taking some sort of action. And working from that place. Now this new level of knowledge that's more intrinsic versus head level.
Robin | I Really like that. Yeah. So this we already you already talked about this, but I think this is such a common one. I mean, I don't think my the hard work block that you have to work hard to make money. And it's and it's not worth it. Right. If it comes easy. It's not worth it. Sorry.
Erin | Yeah, that's yeah, that's one way it shows up. Right? People will tell themselves like, if something seems too easy, I'm going to make it more complicated. I'm going to make it dramatic. I'm gonna, you know, add seven layers to it in order for it to feel like it's worth it.
Robin | Right. Okay, this is really kind of funny, because yesterday, we're redoing my daughter's study because we're gonna create a study room for my for my daughter's and oh my god, Erin. I just I bought this I bought two little signs at Home Sense yesterday. Oh my gosh, one of them says work hard. One of them says play hard. And I was gonna like decorate the office them, I'm like, probably. This is not okay. return those mofos
Erin | Return them in and put that money in the stock market buy like a share of Home Sense or something instead,
Robin | I really want my kid this is funny, right? Because I think we were raising kids. I mean, I was raised to work, you have to work hard, and you're not going to be lazy bones. And, you know, my like, my dad was a very hard worker. He, he played hard too. So it's the messaging. We shouldn't teach our kids you know, because there's there's a balance right Erin.
Erin | Yeah. We don't want, we don't want people to coach through it right? The work hard block is really more around the idea of, if I want more money, I have to put in more hours, right. So we do want you to be a hard worker, right? Like, it's a very virtuous trait we want people to be, but it doesn't mean we have to grind our entire lives away, because we see so much of this right where people and it can be out of necessity to write like, I think about how many people move to Canada from places that are war torn, or that are, you know, just you know, in a country that's developing and just doesn't have the infrastructure, and they come here, and they've got a doctor's degree somewhere else, and they come here, and they're, they're not qualified to do what their brains allow them to do. And so they get in this, they get trapped in this thing of, they're working two, three jobs to make what they were making, and they're usually supporting other people or whatever. And the danger in that the danger, well, first of all, there's a lot of systemic issues. So we're not going to go into that part. But the danger and all of that is, they're going to run out of time. And so what we'll see happen is people hit 65, 70,80 years old, and they're like, uh, wish, I would have taught my kid to ride a bike, I wish I would have been there for more birthdays, I wish I would have celebrated our anniversaries. And so that's the, the leverage, right? We have to balance the leverage of time and the leverage of money to create, like a life that we love. So working hard is not the worst thing. It's only not great if we're missing out on other things. And so that's where we have to figure out how to get our money working for us, so that we can relax. And that's what you're in.
Robin | That's what you're teaching. You're teaching people how to have their money work for them. And
Erin | Yeah,
Robin | You know, I hope we've got time to go through a few of those strategies, but we're gonna go through the blocks, first of all right? So stress block, money is stressful, finances are stressful. If you believe that money circumstances are outside of your control, you're at the mercy of what happens to you. Right? So you're like, that's, yeah,
Erin | Yeah. And I always joke that we know this is true, right? Because people will often think, oh, you know, oh, money stresses me out, I'm thinking to myself, money doesn't stress you out, you are stressed out. Because you're probably also stressed out by other things. And so we know that all the emotions already live in us like we we keep forgetting stress doesn't live outside you. stresses in you all the time. Happiness is in you all the time. Joy is in you all the time angers in you all the time. But we things happen. And then we activate the emotion, the thing doesn't activate us we act we trained, we're trained to activate it, right. And we know this is true. Because children cry at Disneyland, the happiest place on earth, and kids cry, never see Disneyland that are laughing and playing with a cardboard box. So the place or the external thing doesn't drive the emotion. We are more in control of those emotions than we realize. And so all it usually means when we're stressed about money is it means we haven't learned how to find money fun. We haven't learned how to find money, joy in building net worth, we haven't learned how to write, we've picked up somebody else's conditioning. And we've made it ours. And now whenever we associate anything with money, it creates stress in us, which means we're then going to avoid it, which means we're not going to build wealth. So we have to just learn how to recondition and make money really fun, and make it really joyful and have conversations about it like you're having that are like really meaningful and funny and enjoyable. Right? That's, that's critical to to healing that block.
Robin | Yeah. So the next one is procrastination block. All right, there must be a lot of people out there that have this because it's like, you're, I'm afraid of both success and failure. So this is inaction, right?
Erin | Yes, it is.
Robin | So I delay taking action on things that bring me more income, because blocks the flow of wealth because we are losing on on time, which is one of the most powerful factors that allows money to compound. That's right.
Erin | Yeah.
Robin | And I think this is this, this also really demonstrates, if somebody has a procrastination block, they're likely procrastinating in other areas of their life, in many ways.
Erin | Yes.
Robin | Because, yeah. Right. And it's just like you're not taking action. And what is the solution to that is, this is not complicated. It's like, simple steps, day by day doesn't have to be like a huge leap. Like you say, it's like, this is just baby steps. Because, like, the key is inertia. You have to get it going. You got to move that rock. It's not gonna go downhill, right? That's to go. You have to push it maybe up for a bit, but you still have to push it.
Erin | Yes. And I think we have to reframe procrastination. Because I think procrastinators, they get a bad rap. Like, they're always they're told that they're lazy. They're totally, you know, they're nagged at it. It is fear based, and oftentimes, it's also related to perfectionism. So procrastinators actually often have really high standards for themselves. But when they think they can't do something really well, or perfectly, they don't do it at all. So we have to be really careful because they're usually very smart, very amazing. And they're not lazy people. They just kind of get caught sometimes, like in that little gap in time. And when we can make it safe for somebody to procrastinate and let them get to things in their own time by just taking those little steps. They don't have to get to level 10 Right away, but they can do level one right there more likely to start to take those small actions.
Robin | Yeah. And your your book is full of like, huge amounts of information for each of these. This is what we're doing Coles notes. We're not going to read your notes. Yeah, yes, this is important for people to know like it. There's a big section on understanding your block and how to heal it, steps to take. Okay, the last one is money guilt block. I feel guilty if I have money. I have a money guilt. I think I do.
Erin | Yeah.
Robin | I feel guilty when I have money and other people are struggling, it feels greedy or unfair. If I have money while other people are hurting financially,
Erin | Yeah
Robin | This blocks the flow of wealth, because we believe that there is a finite amount of abundance. I don't actually believe that I believe that there is abundance, like I have had a very abundant attitude in life. Yeah, many areas of my life. And I don't know how much money guilt block I have. But anyways, I resonated with that, when in the spending block, those are the two I was like, Okay, gotta focus Robin. This is where you're gonna heal.
Erin | It makes sense to because of like, even if with your spend block, right, you were ready to give a lot away. And so there was like that element of sharing. So it could also just be that you believe that the abundance has to come from you. And you might also, even though you have an abundant mindset, you don't believe that everybody has an abundant mindset. And so you feel kind of responsible to help, which is a great, it's a it's a really great place to be in. In your case, I don't think it's preventing you from building wealth. So it's like, no, I think for you, it's like this intrinsic thing that you may be had, but you've overcome it in some way. That's why it's resonating with you in a lot of ways, but it sounds like you've healed that for the most part. But what a lot of people will do is they, they don't have any money, they don't have their own financial freedom. And yet, they feel terrible. They sort of have opinions about how it should be and how we should be sharing more or whatever. But they're not actually like taking compassionate action towards making a difference. They're just instead keeping themselves small. So now they're not helping themselves and they're not helping other people. Right. That's usually how that block shows up.
Robin | Right?
Erin | Yeah.
Robin | Wow. Okay. So then you go, Okay, everybody has to take the quiz, right?
Erin | Yes
Robin | So is I know your book isn't released yet. But you are. Is what is your book coming out?
Erin | Tuesday
Robin | Tuesday? That's the second, right?
Erin | Fifth,
Robin | Oh the fifth? Oh, sorry. I'm lost on my days here. Oh, wait, the fifth of September.
Erin | What days?
Robin | Tuesday would be days? days it today doesn't matter. Because I don't know when this is gonna air, probably going to air in two weeks, so your books gonna be out, which is great. Doesn't matter. It's gonna be out. It's out. Okay, so is your quiz on your website right now? Or?
Erin | It is. Yes. So chapter four in the book is like the most comprehensive version of the quiz, right? It's what do you want, you want the paperback version? If you like to read your books in the bathtub with a glass of something sparkly and you want the pen like you're doing a Cosmo quiz. Like if you really want to, like get into the the really steps of it, you want the physical book. But on the website, if you go to NakedMoneyMeetings.com There's an a, you know, a shorter version where you can just like click on all of the different ones. And it spits out the answer for you. And then if your partner takes a quiz, it'll also spit out where your two blocks intersect for you. So that happens on nakedmoneymeetings.com
Robin | Yes, okay, yeah. So then you've got this, then you then you're, then after you figure out your block, then you're going to talk, then we're going to work on healing these blocks, obviously, awareness is key, so that you can know what to work on. Yeah, totally get that. So you got your six steps on how to even just start the healing, right? I'm not gonna go we're not gonna go through everything, because people have to read the book. That's it. But one thing I did want to jump into is when you know your block, and you know your partner knows their block, they've done the quiz, you both have done the quiz or maybe Okay, and then you're going to work on how are you going to put these two blocks together, And heal
Erin | Yes. What's interesting is you have to make a sacred vow with yourself that you will even when your partner says, Oh, I think this is my money block or whatever you don't you never this never comes out of your mouth, your lover like I know. Like, you have to act like it's new information every time right? You have to be like, really? Why do you think that you have to just get really like you really have to detach. Yes, because they really have to have their own journey. If you taint their journey, sometimes what can happen is we can create a new block, we can create a new pattern for them, right? We want to set our partners up for freedom. So it's really important that yes, you know, your block, you know, your partner's block, you know how they intersect, you know how you trigger each other. And now you're going to do the work to heal your block from the perspective of even if my partner never changes, I'm still going to do this work for me. I'm going to love my partner wholly and completely for who they are today. I'm going to create a big enough container for them to grow into if they want to change great if they don't, no big deal. The one thing that happens in partnerships, when one partner starts to change is it creates fear in the other partner sometimes. So we see this when, let's say, well, this was my husband and I in COVID we both gained a lot of weight. And then suddenly he decided he was going to lose his but I was still in burrito eating mode on the couch.
Robin | Sweetheart, what do you do?
Erin | I'm gonna have an affair, what's gonna you know what I mean? I'm like all that right the fear until I was like maybe Aaron, you should get off the couch too, and let go for a walk. Right? So. So the fear in the in the partner that isn't willing to change is the part that needs to be addressed, not their money block. We have to make sure they know that you're going to love them anyway, you're doing it for you. You don't care if they change or not change, you love them anyway. And then you just proceed on doing the work. And the work just really is about being aware, making new decisions, catching yourself when you make mistakes, because you will on account of being human. And then continuing to condition the new patterns and the new behaviors, right. So if it's adding extra money to an investment, or saving or doing some kind of research on real estate in your area, or whatever it is, but you're making those motions towards while you pay attention to like, what's triggering you and how it's showing up and what changes you need to make. And of course, as you were talking about if you have to go see a therapist, I highly encourage that because this work is deep work. And I really believe that when people spend money on counseling or therapy or something like that, it's always it's the best return on investment, it's always money well spent, especially find a good therapist, you're going to do this work in a way that isn't judgmental towards yourself, and you don't have any expectations of the outcome. All you want to do is create a really kind safe space for you and your partner to be able to start to make some small changes, because the results will absolutely show up.
Robin | Yes, they will. So a couple of things I thought of while you were saying these things was first thing. The story that you shared your book about this couple, because it's you said you have a pattern together. Right? Yes. So you it's very possible that you're enabling your your partner's unhealthy financial habits, let's say and not knowing right? Okay. So an example you gave was husband, no, they were partners. I don't think their husband or wife yet. And he's he was spending your sorry, he was a good saver, and in following his budget, and she was racking up her credit cards all the time. No, he was like, super upset about it. And so he'd be like,gosh, darn it pay off her credit card, right. And it kept happening over and over again. And in the meantime, she's just expanding and racking it up. And I'm sure they're having a lot of arguments in the whole scheme of this. And he said to you like Erin, like, this is BS, like, what do I do? And you're like, You got to stop that, like stop paying off her credit card. That is this is not helping. And then I can imagine, I can even see the whole scenario, right? You're like, you understand why he's doing it. Because he's like, he loves her. And he wants to get their financial life on track. Yeah. But what happened was he like followed your advice and stop paying off a credit card. And sooner or later, she had to learn uh oh like, I don't have a savior here. It's not and I have to change. And she had to change on her own.
Erin | Yes.
Robin | Which is what we all do.
Erin | She did
Robin | Yeah. I know. But that's the thing. Like, you can change somebody else.
Erin | No. And she was angry for a while to be honest, too. Like I didn't get into, because of course, the book gets edited down for brevity. She was mad. She was like, almost, and not in a way that was like entitled, like, she really wasn't like, well, he has to pay it off. But it was really just like, why are you like, like anything when a pattern changes, right? It disrupts the other person. And she was really like, oh, and and she had to experience a lot of pain. And it was painful for both of them. And it got to the place for a little while where they didn't even talk. They were both in avoidant mode because they didn't want to talk about it because it was creating fights like you predicted. But then she really just got to this place where she was like, well, what would happen if I learned like, what would happen if I paid attention. And what would happen if I so she had to go through all the painful lessons that he already knew. And I kept saying him do not say I told you so do not test like just let her be really proud of her went into one day she comes home I guess and she goes, You know, I've been realizing one of the reasons I overspend is because I like to get the points and he was like, huh, like doing his best not to be like I was like Don't tell her I told you so. And but she really did she went on to build a lot of wealth. Well, they built wealth together now. When she,
Robin | Got married he had kids can build their wealth together. The dynamic switched it really did and it was really good story. I loved it. You there's a lot of great stories in the book and a lot of lessons that we can learn and it happens all the time.
Erin | It's not a one off, like people need to change your partnership will improve provided everything is done in love. Yeah,
Robin | Yes. And you know that was other, just made perfect sense to me, that when you improve this because there is you have this big section in the book as well about financial intimacy and how it is a form of intimacy and your partnership. And when that when your financial intimacy is improves, because this is Naked Money Meetings like you're getting down to the bare bone, the vulnerability of it all. That's what it means.
Erin | Yeah.
Robin | And when you're able to work together on such an intimate level, which a lot of couples aren't able to, that's financials are not talked about, they're just like you said, and then you're in big trouble, because you're not working through it. Yeah. But when you do improve it, you can improve so much of your partnership.
Erin | Yes, absolutely. And what's cool about financial intimacy is it's, it is a mirror for all the other levels, but it's just easier to see, because with numbers, they don't lie. So when you're making changes in your financial life, you're like, I don't know if this is gonna work or not, right, you know, a week or two or a month or a couple of paychecks later, if it's working, because the numbers increase, right, we teach you how to track all that. So that that's not foreign. But sometimes when we're doing other things in our lives, where we're, you know, trying to make changes, like we're trying not to complain as much, or we're trying not to like, it's harder to tell if it's working, because you don't have the tangible results. So when you're doing this work, you are going to see those improvements in your relationships, your health, all the other areas, but you'll also have the numbers that are showing you when things are going well. And my husband, I always joke that when my net worth goes down, we got to look at all the other things too, right? Because it probably means I mean, a few too many dunkin donuts or whatever this evening, because when one thing sort of starts to fall, there's usually some sort of stress or anxiety going on that I need to deal with that I've just been avoiding. So when you can lean into it, and it's safe for you to lean into it and work on things together. Everything improves.
Robin | Yeah, it's creating safety. I really like Yeah, it's so important. So important. Okay, so before we close off, I did want to talk about the end of the book is so good, because you talk about the cycle of giving and receiving, like we want to at the end of the day, you're wanting to, you're wanting to increase your net worth, which is what I think a lot of us most of us want to do. And at the end of the day, you want to be abundant so that you can live an abundant life and you can share and give and receive freely. Like that's like, and you talk a lot about the about money being energy.
Erin | Yeah,
Robin | Right?
Erin | Yeah it is.
Robin | Yeah, can talk to us about the giving and receiving cycle. We sorry, before we close, because I think it's just so beautiful when you talk about it that way.
Erin | It is such a weird, okay, so it's a little woowoo. And I wasn't into the woowoo until I really got this. So I'm gonna say this. And if you're like me, and you're like,yeah, this sounds really well. I want you to just watch for it in your own life so that you can frame it in your own way. But always when there's like any exchange human to human, there's always a giver, and a receiver. This is one of the things you're really good at Robin. So like when you're interviewing somebody, you're not just taking, right like your audience gets insight from the person you're interviewing, but they also get it from you. Because you do such a brilliant job of giving and receiving, right, you're in conversation, you're not like interviewing somebody or just talking at them. So you do such a beautiful job of that. But that shows up in gift giving, it shows up in hospitality, like if you've got friends over your house, it even shows up in the way you breathe. So if you're like close your eyes, and like listen to your own breathing, sometimes people like breathe in quickly and breathe out longer, which means they're giving more oxygen. And some people breathe in longer, but are short on the exhale, which means that they're taking more so it shows up in everything giving and receiving shows.
Robin | I've never heard the breathing one before, whoah.
Erin | Something really fun is if you ever like listening, your next your partner while they're sleeping, just listen to their breathing. And you'd be like, Oh, he's, he's in a giving state right now or he's in a receiving. It's just interesting how it all just, that's a little bit too dramatic. But it's, that's the idea, right is everything is always there's always an exchange. And when we get out of alignment. Sorry for the beeping. Those are, these are my children who are texting the only time my phone beeps when the children text and I forgot to turn it off. So I apologize for that.
Robin | That's so cute.
Erin | The only the only time we start to struggle is when we're out of alignment. And it doesn't necessarily mean every day we have to be equal. There's no such thing as that kind of balance, right. But there are seasons in our life, where we do need to receive more, maybe we're grieving something, or we're going through some kind of challenge. And so we need our community or a family to kind of pour into us to help us out. Or maybe our best friend is going through something. And in that moment, she's not there to listen to our problems about traffic and work. We're there to just give and pour into her while she takes, right so there's always an exchange happening with everybody in every relationship and every and every being. When that's interrupted or when it's unhealthy. So like when we shift, we all have somebody like this in our lives, right? The person who always makes everything about them or you walk into a room and they're like that energy vampire that sucks all the air out of the room, they're a taker, right? Whenever that happens, there's an imbalance. And so that imbalance shows up in more than one way. So financially speaking, what happens is, there's a lot of people out there who in the world of like consumer debt, right? People will often assume that people with lots of consumer debt are just shopping addicts or they you know, they're overspenders or something like oftentimes they're are really big givers. They're trying to take care of everybody else. But they're terrible at receiving for themselves. Yes, they're terrible claiming ownership. So you have to that's what I guess. Yeah. So sometimes managing your money and having a Naked Money Meeting with yourself is just being brutally honest is where in my life have I been giving too much? And where do I need to stop and receive? And sometimes it's as simple as you know, people will say, I get home from work, and I just need to watch TV to relax. But are you restored? Like, are you? What do you actually need to feel restored? And can you give that to yourself? Or can somebody else give that to you? And can you properly ask for it? And do you know how? So that whole idea of like giving and receiving is such an important part to being human, that when we are out of balance, it will affect our health, our finances, and our relationships, more than anything else. So being practiced at being both a really good receiver, being comfortable with what the universe wants to God, if you believe in God, but what God wants to bless you with with the inner, if you're comfortable receiving all of those blessings, this is going to be easier for you. But you also have to know what you're entrusted with. And when it's time to give it away, which is something that comes really naturally to you. And you're going to do really good at provided, it's still creating abundance in you. That's why I liked when you said, yeah, you've got that money. And you're gonna put some of it away. I thought, okay, we're okay. She's healed. She's not right. But if the natural inclination was to give all of it away, it'd be like, oh, no, no, we're in trouble. Because it's gonna put you out of alignment that was meant for you. That was your work that you were supposed to receive that and you get to decide what to do with it next. But you still have an obligation to grow it so that you can still maintain a posture of being able to both give and receive.
Robin | Oh, yes. Oh, that is so good. Erin. I loved it, all of it.
Erin | I'm so grateful for you and your brilliance and your time today.
Robin | I'm so grateful. I'm serious. I'm gonna read your next book and and listen to it. Because the best part about having an audiobook is that you get to really get to know the author. And I really felt like, oh, I love this girl. Because you're so funny. And your personality comes out in your audiobook, which is, oh, your audio. What am I talking about? I didn't get to I didn't I would just listen your podcast all the time, Because not on audio yet. It will be.
Erin | Yeah, it's it is everything's on Audible. And the fun part about audibles is that because when you're the author and you're reading them, you can throw in fun side stories.
Robin | Exactly.
Erin | Fun little things that like, you know, wouldn't make it in the regular book. So it does have some little gems in it. Yeah,
Robin | Right. Well, I'm going to, we're going to close our podcasts with a blessing. And I already feel very blessed from talking to you and getting to know you better. And so, may we work to heal our money block to allow us to improve many areas of our lives. May we take the awareness we are gaining from this work and give compassion and love to others along their journey. And may we get brutally honest and have Naked Money Meetings, either solo or the partner in order to create more joy and abundance in our lives. Thank you, Erin Skye Kelly.
Erin | Oh, it was just beautiful. Thank you.
Robin | Please visit Realloveready.com To become a member of our community. Submit your relationship questions for our podcast experts. At Real Love Readypodcast@gmail.com We read everything you send. Be sure to rate and review this podcast. Your feedback helps us get you the relationship advice and guidance you need. The Real Love Ready podcast is recorded and edited by Maia Anstey. Transcriptions by otter.ai and edited by Maia Anstey. We at Real Love Ready, acknowledge and express gratitude for the Coast Salish people, the stewards of the land on which we work in play, and encourage everyone listening. Take a moment to acknowledge and express gratitude for those that have stewarded and continue to steward the land that you live on as well.