Let’s Talk Love Podcast Season 2 Episode #12 with Erica Turner | Transcript

22.11.24

This transcript is from the Let’s Talk Love Podcast, available in our Podcast Feed.

Robin Ducharme | Welcome to Let's Talk Love. This week I am speaking with relationship coach, Erica Turner from Your Relationship Reset. Erica offers one-to-one coaching and workshops for people, whether they're single, in a relationship, or somewhere in between. Today we talk about different relationship styles, how they're formed, and how we can unlearn unhealthy ways of relating. Why do some of us settle for less? What is the difference between being needy versus having our genuine needs go unmet? Is it that you're asking too much? Or that they are not enough? And how do you date from a place of empowerment and self-assuredness? Erica has a lot of insights to share, enjoy. Welcome to the Let's Talk Love podcast, where we flip the script on outdated narratives and cliches about love and relationships. I'm your host, Robin Ducharme, founder of Real Love ready. This podcast is for anyone who wants to be better at love, regardless of relationship status. We'll talk about the intimate connections in our lives and the challenges and complexities inherent in those partnerships through our no holds barred interviews with global experts we will gain insight about ourselves and learn new skills to improve our relationships. Because when we learn to love better, we make the world a better place. Are you ready for open and honest conversations about love? Let's get started.

Welcome to Let's Talk Love, I am so happy to welcome our guest Erica Turner today. Welcome Erica. Thank you for joining us on Let's Talk Love.

Erica Turner | Thank you, I'm so excited to be here.

Robin Ducharme | Both my colleague and I have been diving into your body of work and taking one of your courses, all about attachment styles, and healthy versus toxic and unfulfilling relationships and learning a lot. And so I thought we would dive into that. But the first thing I always do with my guests is ask a personal question. What in your life right now is giving you the greatest joy? And what is one of the biggest challenges you're facing in your life right now?

Erica Turner | Oh, goodness, greatest joy. I'm gonna try to say something nonwork-related.

Robin | That's okay if it's work-related.

Erica | I mean, I do think, that's why I do this work, I would have to say my relationships, you know, being surrounded by the people that fill me up. And, you know, I have friends that I've known since I was 10. And just having these meaningful, rich relationships. Just I really value them. So they're really, I would say that's my answer for the first one. And then what was the second question?

Robin | What is a challenge that you're having right now in your life?

Erica | A challenge. I mean, after all the work that I've done, and all of the content and knowledge that I pour into my work with my clients, I still, you know, have my own healing journey. And I think, you know, I'm still practicing the pause, I still maybe assign meaning to things that I shouldn't. That I'm kind of assuming the intention behind people's behavior that's just not true. That leads me to, you know, arguing or sabotaging. So I think that's my biggest challenge is still practicing the pause.

Robin | Oh I really like that, practicing the pause. Beautiful. So let's get started. I would love for our audience and myself to learn more about how you even got into this work of relationship coaching. And really what led you down this path?

Erica | I mean, I would say probably witnessing a toxic relationship growing up, you know, my parents struggling with their own toxic relationship and how it impacted me. And all the things I talk about, you know, how it impacted my attachment style, how it impacted my sense of self, my development, and then of course, later on in life, how it impacted how I was showing up in my own romantic relationships. And once the light bulb went off, you know, once I became aware, I just dove into trying to understand so I could heal. And once I was firmly within my own journey, it was okay I want to spread all that I've learned to other people.

Robin | And so we took one of your courses, your courses are great, you're a really good teacher and the way that you explain things is different than what I've heard before. And so, you know, every week, I feel like through our podcasts and through our IG Lives with Real Love Ready, I'm learning a lot, obviously, about relationships, and we're on a lifelong journey when it comes to our healing. So I would like to understand from your perspective because I think this word toxic is used a lot right now. And it has been, and I'm trying to understand the difference and from your perspective of an unsatisfying relationship versus a toxic one.

Erica | Yeah. So certainly I like to look at relationships as existing on a spectrum from you know, healthy, to unhealthy, to toxic. So I think under that toxic umbrella is you know, we're getting into that in that abuse, you know, that that the gaslighting, the invalidation the emotional abuse, on a person. That's, I think, where things begin to shift. Unhealthy, being more I guess the core difference would be your partner's willingness to, to address and work on the issue, when you bring it up. Even when things are unhealthy and you're feeling hurt, or some need is going on net in the dynamic. Is the partner willing to hear you and work together to make an adjustment? Or do they shame you, gaslight you, manipulate you out of believing what you believe, then we're teetering into more abusive and toxic dynamics?

Robin | So you do a lot of teaching about attachment styles. And we've we've done a lot around this as well. And I think it's just great to have different perspectives on just even explaining bare bones, what attachment styles really, like, where they originate from. Right? And so can you give us in your words where attachment styles come from? And really, how they're, how they're formed?

Erica | Yeah, sure. So I'm certainly, I guess, you know, more of a traditionalist in terms of attachment styles. And, you know, being rooted in attachment theory, which was developed based on a parent-child relationship. So I very much believe that your attachment style is just your learned pattern of relating, your learned pattern of attaching, your learned pattern of attempting to connect and bond with another human being. And we either have this very secure, confident way of relating, or we're more insecure. And of course, you know, we all know that we've been drilled this in all the books. You know, anxious, avoidant, or disorganized. But yeah most simply rooted in your relational dynamic with your parent or caregiver. How did you learn to relate? his was a learned relational dynamic, just like you learn how to tie your shoes, you learn whether or not you can ask for your needs, or whether you can trust someone else, or whether you can have an emotion and it be validated. So certainly, those early dynamics are going to be a very contributing factor to you know, how we learn to relate.

Robin | Yeah, and something that you just said, it was so simple, but you say that, and it makes sense, as children we're not taught how to meet our own needs. That's not how we're wired. We're not meant to be these little beings that know how to meet our needs. Of course, not like when we're kids, like, especially, you know, in theory, our attachment styles are developed by the time we're two, right? That's very, very young. And of course, we can't meet our own needs. By the time we're two. And so I just thought I thought about that, I thought, yes, as children were not meant to, or taught how to how to meet our own needs. And so as adults, or even as adolescence and into adulthood, it's like, that's when we are learning how to meet our own needs. But if we're not taught that, then it is like this, we have to either unlearn or learn or both. Right? So can you talk about attachment trauma, that was something new that I had learned from you when I was taking this course?

Erica | Oh, wonderful. Yeah. So attachment trauma is of course, what leads us to then develop an insecure attachment style. Attachment trauma, I guess most simply defined is when there is a disconnect or a break in the bond or connection between you and your primary caregiver. So if I'm like you said two, and I feel disconnected from my parents, either physically or emotionally, my three primary needs as a child to feel safe, to feel soothed when I'm upset and to feel seen. I mean, no one understood attune to if those needs aren't getting met, that feels very threatening to my survival. I mean, like you said, I'm literally dependent on this other person, to take care of me and to meet my needs, and to be there for me. And if that isn't happening, that's trauma for a child, right? A child that's emotionally traumatic. Because you feel threatened, you feel like my livelihood, my safety, my survival is in jeopardy if I don't have a bond to something. I need to latch on to somebody, I'm a child. So the attachment trauma, then, and I like to define trauma, I forget where I read this, but this idea that it's not what happened to you, it's anything that causes you to feel dysregulated. It's really how you perceive the event as a kid. It's not really what happened to you, because we all respond to our environment differently, right? So it's not what happened to you. It's how you perceive it. So if I'm perceiving that I'm being ignored, or that my needs are gonna get met. That's traumatic for a child. And then the anxious attachment or the avoidant attachment develops, as a result of that. I can't just be myself and have my needs met, I have to develop this maladaptive coping strategy to try to get my needs met.

Robin | These behaviors. Yes.

And at the time when you're little these, these behaviors, are, they are adaptive, and they're working in your favor, because it's like, this was like, you know, you're teaching about fantasy thinking, right? This made sense to me. How you say, as a child, if your needs aren't being met, our brain’s default is to seek pleasure and avoid pain. And it's a coping mechanism, right. And it allows you as a child to focus on the good, and forget the bad. That was wow, I thought that was quite an insight. When I learned that and you focus on what could be, what could be and ignore the bad. So can you please explain a bit more about fantasy thinking and how like, as a child, this is an adaptive mechanism. Whereas if you bring this fantasy thinking into your adult relationships, that is where things go, right? Can we can we kind of talk about that, what I really loved about it is that there's just the innocence behind it, right? Because you're learning you've learned these things as a child as a baby, and then you care. It's no, not really a fault. You don't even you're doing this out of what you learned when you were little.

Erica | Right, right. Truly, you're doing it to survive. Yeah, I always like to say it's not your fault that you learned to relate in the way you realize you're relating, but it is our responsibility to, once we're aware it's our job to be accountable. We are adults, we're no longer these helpless, powerless children. It is on us to take care of ourselves and heal. So yeah, getting back to fantasy thinking, like you were saying, I'm primed to seek pleasure and avoid pain. And it is painful as a child to even consider that my parent can't be there for me, that my parent is unavailable. That love is conditional. That's, that's, that's really hurtful.

Robin | And leaving is not an option. That is, of course not.

Erica | It's not an option. Of course not, I'm dependent on you. I'm stuck here. Compounded by the fact that as a child, it's too threatening for me to think that something is wrong with my parents because I'm dependent on my parents to live. So by default, something must be wrong with me. So now I'm stuck in a toxic relationship in adulthood, right? And when this continues, I'm stuck in a toxic relationship. I don't even consider leaving. And I've been primed to think something is wrong with me and that I'm the problem here. So just these toxic dynamics at play that we learned. So yes, with the fantasy thinking it's, it's safer and more comfortable for me to ignore the reality of what it is, ignore the fact that my needs aren't getting met, ignore the fact that every time I have a feeling mom or dad or whoever gets irritated, I cannot face those realities. So I have to focus on the fantasy of what could be, downplay the negative, and focus on just those good times, just like we do in our romantic relationships. Because it's just too painful. So I exist, I exist in a non-reality.

Robin | And so you say that you know, in these insecure relational patterns, it's common to ignore yourself and avoid healing things about yourself as well that are keeping you stuck. So this is how codependency comes into play, abandonment, and abandonment fears. So anyways, I just think going back, I think going back to the principles of how these how this, these things even begin, when it comes to how all of us, some of us, many of us can show up in these insecure ways. And I just thought the way that you explain it, Erica is fantastic in your, yeah, so thank you for the work you're doing I really, and what you're really helping people do is unlearn these, these patterns, so that you can identify what's going on and create, you know, obviously more healthy relational dynamics and good, healthy, loving relationships, right?

Erica | Yeah, yeah.

Robin | Okay. So I would like to understand this, this was a good thing about like, understanding why we settle for less, why do we show up in relationships and allow ourselves to tolerate less than what we want. And you talk about how we do not know how to meet our own needs. So we project them onto a partner, this is so common, right? And so so that they will be able to meet our needs for us, but this never works. Would you? Would you say? No, it never does.

Erica | It never works. No.

Robin | So can you give us the three reasons why people stay in relationships that are not meeting our needs? Because you have you have reasons why this plays out. Right?

Erica | Yeah. I mean, first and foremost, because we learn to, right? If mom and dad aren't meeting my needs, I learned to stay anyway, I didn't even consider the option of disengaging. So that's number one. And then, of course, like settling for less I stay, because I perhaps learned that I'm the problem one. So I'm not gonna get my needs met anywhere else. And for the third one, I would just say I stay because I don't know how to meet my own needs. Like you're saying, I don't know how to meet my needs on my own. So I just stay here in this one dynamic trying over and over and over and over again, trying to get somebody else to do it. Because I never learned how to meet my own needs. I never learned that I could go to somebody and meet, or go to someone say what I need, and have them healthily work through the need with me, right? Teach me oh, this is how you can get your needs met. Right? If the parent wasn't doing that, if that wasn't modeled to me, I was just modeled, you know, go to your room be quiet. You don't need that, or whatever it was. You never learned how to speak for your needs.

Robin | Yes. So when we're talking about fantasy thinking as a child, and how that shows up in your adult relationship. It's like you're you're only going to focus on what could be in a relationship or what that person could like, you know, if you're looking at all the good, bring that person but ignoring all the bad. And, and then there's a pattern for you to focus on the other person, right, which is more like the things you want them to change. Their potential, the future of what could be, and how you can make them the person you want them to be.

Erica | Yes, yeah. Yes. All my efforts are focused on changing the other person. That's why I stay

Robin | Yes. Ignoring yourself in the meantime, and avoiding healing yourself. And so this was great, about how you talk about really, we need to turn turn it back to yourself and looking at okay, this person is not meeting my needs. I have to learn how to meet my own needs. And so how do you coach people to do that is to like identify like, these are the needs I'm not that I'm looking at. One of the things you talk about, you say a lot of people find themselves with emotionally unavailable people, for example, and it's like, well, how are you meeting your emotional needs?

Erica | Exactly. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, first and foremost, I always show my clients a list of human needs, you know, I think there are probably like 100 needs on there. I mean, from air and water to, you know, purpose and adventure, right? Like we all have needs. And most of the time, when I show people this list, they are astounded by the number of needs, that one is allowed to have or all the options. So first and foremost, what are your needs? What are the things that matter to you most in terms of not just a partnership or a relationship? Just in your life.

Robin | In your life what are you not willing to not have like, like, I need this in order to feel alive. Right?

Erica | Right. Right. Yeah. Right, right. And if you say, if you say you need emotional intelligence or emotional availability, and then you're dating someone who's emotionally unavailable, ding, ding ding, like that, like, we know, we gotta dive into that. So first of all, first, of course, identifying what your needs are. Identifying the ways in which you can meet your needs without the partner. You know, if you say, you need adventure, how are you giving yourself that. And then making sure that you have a, you know, solid list, you know 10 things give or take of the things that are just those nonnegotiables those things you definitely need from a partner, you know, respect, honesty, trust, communication, emotional availability, support.

Robin | On my list I would be like, I have to have joy, I have to have fun, laughter. Those are a need. Like for me, it's a need.

Erica | Joy, laughter, fun play. Yeah. Yeah, definitely. Right. And how am I going to make sure that I'm also giving those things to myself? You know, those ones that I definitely want from someone else. How am I giving this to myself? And that's, you know, there's no quick answer to that. There's no quick discovery that is part of this human journey.

Robin | So what I am sure people are going to be wondering about is how you can differentiate between I, am I being really needy? Or is this a need? Because you talk, I was like, Oh, this is good, right? Because we're like, you could think, Am I just asking, right? Am I really just needing too much? Am I wanting way too much others leadership? Am I being unrealistic? And so am I coming across as being needy? Or is this actually fundamentally a need? How do you help people just differentiate that?

Erica | Yeah, I mean, my quick tip would certainly be, you know, this idea of fear-based needs, your values-based needs. Um, if you are needing something from this, like the insecure, scared place, like I need them to call me every hour when they go out, because I think they're going to be doing something bad while they're out, you know, what is fueling the need, that's only a question you can answer. Versus a values-based need being, you know, I value communication. So, you know, I want to have, you know, daily and of course, it depends on the length of the relationship, how long you've been seeing each other, all context, but you know, in a long term relationship, what, what is the need really rooted in and if it's your values, you know, I always encourage people don't let go of those needs, just because your partner is unwilling or unable to meet them. That is not a reason to give up on your needs. Perhaps it's an indicator or a conversation. And their response to you is all the information you need, I think to decide, whether should I continue to invest here or not.

Robin | Yeah. And so a need that's values-based is something that's going like you say it's going to benefit your mood, your mind your body, your spirit, so obviously this is something that's good for you.

This need is something that you value regardless of this person being in relationship with you or not like you said, you're not dependent on that other person. That need remains whether you're in that relationship or not. And this need, this was an interesting thing I thought about or you are teaching about is like this need is in line with a love language.

Erica | Yeah, yeah. If you say no, you value quality time. You know, Then if you need someone who's able to, you know, be with you, and not just always out with their friends or whatever it is, that's how you get filled up. That's how you feel loved. So if the other person is unwilling to, you know, prioritize what you need. And there's no, you know, attempt to compromise or meet in the middle. Again, it's information I always say, their behavior is information for you, so continue to assess their behavior. Notice how they're treating you. Notice, you know, whether you feel fulfilled. Everything they're doing is information, and then you get to decide, is this what I want, is this where I want to be?

Robin | And so this is also in alignment with what you you talk about, which is, you know, people will say, like, am I? Am I too much? Or are they not enough?

Right? Like, if people are unfulfilled, if they're, they're just not happy, and they're just thinking, oh, man, should I stay or go? Or like, you know, these are obviously very complex questions. And if you're in that position, you're like, question. But you know, you this was a, I thought this was a really good point, you say, it may feel like your needs are too much because the other person lacks a certain capacity to give. And it may feel like your needs are too much because of a mismatch in personal styles. But it's not that your needs are too much, or they're not enough. Oftentimes, it's just that your life goals, which is so true, your preferences, and your lifestyles are just not aligned. Like you're looking for this reason, right? They're not enough, I'm too much. But actually, it could very well be. And I think that's true for a lot of cases when it comes down to when you realize the situation is no longer viable. It's like, actually, we're just going in different directions like I've changed a lot, or our lifestyles are different. We want different things. We have different preferences, and different values. And it doesn't, it sounds simple, but actually, those are big things that may never ever be aligned.

Erica | Correct. Yeah. And I have to accept that reality. And I think another big component is, I have to deal with the emotional discomfort that I feel as a result of my partner's unwillingness or inability to meet my needs. Because that's why we fight. That's why we ask over and over and over and over again, and all my clients come to me and say, Well, if I just word it this way, or if I explain it this way, you know, just keep going in this fight, to get your needs met, that prevents you from sitting in the truth and the pain of this person cannot fulfill in the way that I need them to. And I have o deal with all the discomfort there. And the grieving and the pain and the loss and we don't want to do that.

Robin | It's very, it is so painful when you come to that realization. If you've been with somebody and you love them very deeply, but it's like you just realize, okay, this person can't, is not going to change. Right? Unless they want I mean, we can all change. But that is just sad, it's very sad, but you're right, you have to sit in that uncomfortableness.

So what about self-betrayal and self-abandonment? Because you teach a lot about this too. So what is the difference between self-betrayal and self-abandonment?

Erica | Yes, so I mean, I guess I like to say self-betrayal is when I neglect myself. When I ignore myself, when I drop my own boundaries or go against my own boundaries. You know, when I people please. When I dishonor, disrespect, my needs, values, emotions, preferences, boundaries, all in an effort to gain somebody else's attention, love validation. I am betraying myself. When I'm self-abandoning, kind of how we touched on earlier, I am abandoning my responsibility to take care of myself. And I am putting all of that responsibility into the hands of someone else. Like you're saying about projecting my needs, here are all my needs, have them, take care of them, fulfill all my needs. They're not my responsibility. Right? This is the subconscious operation. And then when they don't meet all of your needs, of course, you're, you're angry. You're frustrated you're lashing out because you gave up your power and then got disappointed when the person didn't fulfill this ideal or expectation that you put on them, they did that they didn't ask for, that it's not their responsibility.

Robin | So what would be an example of somebody self-abandoning? It made sense to me when you talked about the definition around that. You say, like, you know, it's kind of like, you give the example of somebody like abandoning. Well, like, I think you get this example, Erica about abandoning a child, right? It's just like, that's your responsibility to take care of the child. So you are literally abandoning your responsibility. And when you're self-abandoning, you're abandoning yourself in some way. I thought, well, that was a really good comparison. So what would it look like if you're self-abandoning?

Erica | Yeah, so I mean, I think, let's say, you know, I'm codependent. And you know, I gain my need for love, attention, approval, and enoughness through another person, you know, I need you to be in my sphere, my world in order to feel enough. That's my need, to feel enough. And I'm putting it all on you, you have to spend all your time with me, you have to answer all my text messages right away, you have to take me everywhere you go, right, like you have to do X, Y and Z to make me feel enough. And if you aren't doing those things, then I don't feel enough. And I'm angry. So that would be an example of I'm abandoning my responsibility to heal this wound of feeling fully, you know, enough. And putting it on somebody else. I guess even another more tangible example would be, you know, I have I had a client just last week. Adventure. You know, I need my partner to go on this hike with me, they just won't go on this hike with me. And I don't understand why they just can't meet that need. I need adventure, I need my partner to go with me. You could go by yourself, you could go with a friend, you could join a hiking group, you could do X, Y, and Z to fulfill the need for adventure. You cannot rely on your partner to you know, to fill that need and be with you.

Robin | I think that's a really good example. It's something that I realized in my own life, in my marriage, is that you know, because, you know, we all go through ups and downs in with crisis, like with certain things in life. And our son was really sick for a while. And it was a very, very stressful, like, sad, and just like, you know, just felt like this cloud over our family. Right? Of course, it was like one of our members, dearest members is sick. So I was like, what, we all rally, right? But in amongst all that, it was just the heaviness around it and going into the hospital every day. And just like, I can't do this, I need the balance. For me, the counterbalance is the joy, the fun, the laughter, I'm like, I need this. It's like physical, mental, emotional needs. And so and I kept saying this out loud, like, where am I getting? Like, I knew that I needed it. And I was like, how am I, and I knew my husband wasn't able to fulfill that need for me. I mean, he's, he's dealing with our sick son. So it's like, okay, what am I going to do? So, you know, I spent some time with my cousin, spent some time with, you know, even on the phone, like laughing, you just, or watching a little bit of a comedy show, just like, I need to do, I need to bring some lightness into my life. So that was that would have been that could have been an example of like, okay, I could have been blaming my husband being like it's so dark. And like, you know, very, very hard times, I need some joy. Well, it's like, well, that's not up to him to give me that joy. I need to find it. So how can I cultivate it? Right?

Erica | Yes, yes, that's the epitome of being responsible for giving yourself what you need. Yeah, instead of projecting it on to someone else. Yeah.

Robin | I just think it's common for us to do that in our intimate partnerships, is to look to our partners, look outside of ourselves, for the needs that we are not, that are not met. And sometimes it is the relationship. I'm not saying that but I'm saying I love the fact that you're teaching people to actually go in and be like, if you can fulfill this need yourself. Do that first. Rather than relying on your partner to be that, to do that for you.

Erica | Yes, yes, at least 50% Right. I always say fulfill your own needs 50%. So that when you're out there, especially in those early dating phases, so you're not entering the dating world at this like an empty tank. You know at 0% You're going to be that more desperate, like, presenting of this, your at complete lack, and you'll take anything you'll take some breadcrumbs, you know? But if you feel like I know how to get my needs met, then the breadcrumbs are gonna not be fulfilling. You'll pass them right on by.

Robin | Yes. What a great point. So tell us about that Erica because I know you work a lot with people that are in the dating, they're dating, they're looking for, and you may have coached them out of, you know, this unhealthy unfulfilling relationship. And now they're looking for this relationship, the next relationship, that will give them a lot of joy and happiness. So what do you coach people when it comes down to that on like, okay, let's focus on these things when it comes to dating in a way that's going to bring you like, people that are going to fulfill your, that are going to help you with filling your needs and being happy and healthy and nurturing.

Erica | Yeah, I mean, I like to, like, make sure just people have a solid, just foundation understanding of themselves so that they can then know what they're looking for. You know, I used to go into dating, I had no idea what my boundaries were, I had no idea what I needed. I didn't know what my standards were, I didn't know what my nonnegotiables were, I just wanted to be seen and accepted and loved. And so I was going in blind. But once you have this, this template, of, I say like these core identity pillars, my needs, preferences, values, boundaries, standards. And then of course, you know, emotional connection in relationship with yourself is also crucial. But I have to know these foundational elements of myself otherwise, what am I going into dating comparing and contrasting? If I don't even know who I am, how can I know whether or not someone's compatible and a good match for me?

Robin | Your foundational pillars. I really like that. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And so what is your day like now? Like, you're I know, you're so you've got, you know, a large community that you work with. Are you spending a lot of time with one on one, you do one on one coaching and you do your group programs? Is that how you're helping people now? Like, let's just say somebody that's listening is like, I really need Erica's help. What is the way, like how? Let's say that they're dating and they want to learn these pillars.

Erica | Yeah, I mean, I have two workshops, one on understanding your attachment style to help you break the cycle of toxic relationships. And then the other workshop is empowered dating, which really dives into a lot of the topics we've been talking about today, to just help give you those foundational pillars and tools to enter the dating world. Feeling like you're not just, you know, I don't want you to feel like you're the disempowered one. That you're just waiting to be chosen. You know, sitting in that waiting room hoping to be picked.

Robin | You're in the driver's seat.

Erica | You have to. Right, right. Right. And, and I have and first, the number one thing I have to say is those boundaries, you know, what are you willing to tolerate? And what are you not willing to tolerate? And don't be afraid to speak up and state it because that was my biggest hurdle was, I was petrified to communicate a boundary because I thought a boundary would mean they'd leave. And then here I am alone, and I equated that with death. You know, a codependent person, like myself, I'm actively on my own healing journey. When someone leaves that abandonment wound gets triggered, and it feels like you're just floating in this abyss with nowhere to land. So the more you know yourself, you can be your own landing spot.

Robin | Oh, I really liked that. The more you know yourself, you can be your own landing spot. Yeah.

Erica | Yeah. And then it doesn't, doesn't feel so threatening. When someone else says, No, this isn't for me. I can say okay, I'm still here, I've got me. I'm less dependent on that other person to give me that sense of identity, that sense of self. So that's what the Empowered Dating Workshop is all about. And those are both on my website or you can go to my Instagram. And then of course the one-on-one coaching is available and also in the process of creating a codependency course.

Robin | Oh, great.

Erica | As opposed to because both of the workshops are two hours in length, and it's just like a one time, two hours, of course, you can watch it as many times as you'd like. But the course is going to be weekly videos, pre-recorded videos of me speaking on, you know, the pillars of healing, and I'm going to provide people with additional reading and reflective questions, journal prompts, etc. To use, you know, in their own time on a weekly basis, to just provide more in-depth support. So that's something I'm working on now, which should be hopefully ready by the end of November.

Robin | So when we first started, you were before we go, Erica, I wanted you to talk about the pause. Creating the pause. What is this about? And how do you do that? I think we can all use a lot of, a little bit of pause.

Erica | Right. Right. Right. Okay. It's gonna sound very simplistic, but it's certainly very difficult. The pause requires being aware of yourself, you know, being aware of when somebody says something to you, I mean, the response and knee-jerk reaction is instantaneous, you know, you immediately feel defensive, or you immediately feel angry, or you immediately feel rejected, or not enough, or you feel wrong, or whatever that immediate response is, pause. And think. I know that sounds so simple, but we don't do this. Pause and think about what meaning am I assigning to what just happened, we assign a lot of meaning to things that really have no inherent meaning. We just are quick to form an opinion, have an emotion, which then fuels our behavior. So it all starts with what we think. And the meaning we're assigning to our environment, and the external factors. So practicing the pause, the pause has to happen. As soon as you feel yourself triggered, as soon as you feel yourself, you know, I like to get in touch with you know, the body, what, what happens for you when you're triggered? Are you, do you feel tense in your shoulders? Does your stomach drop? Do you, you know, what is it? And then when you notice yourself feeling an emotion, pause, and think. And this takes, you know, this is why we do the mindfulness, this buzzword, mindfulness. You know, it's so important to practice mindfulness when you're not triggered, right? Being aware of yourself, like we were talking about earlier, coming back to yourself. What do you think? What do you feel? What do you need? Get into the practice of asking yourself that, so that when you're triggered, that will be your go-to. What do I feel? What do I think, what do I need? And then you respond, then you say something, instead of it being this knee-jerk assumptive reaction.

Robin | Practicing the pause, and I like the fact that you say that you have to do that when you're not triggered so that it is a practice. And the more you practice, the better you're gonna get at it. So then when you are triggered is like, Okay, you're gonna be, you're gonna be in that practiced state.

Erica | Yeah, yes. Yeah, exactly. How else can you expect to get better at it if you don't practice?

Robin | Oh, that's wonderful. Well, I'm so happy that we had a chance to talk and I thank you so much for your time. And all the beautiful work you're doing in the world, Erica, helping so many people. And I learned a lot by studying your work this week and diving into your course. And I'm just so happy that we met.

Erica | Wow thank you, Robin. That means so much to me. I mean, if you had told me 10 years ago that I would be helping people with this stuff I would not have believed it. So it just really means a lot to me that you and hopefully others are getting a little something out of it.

Robin | Absolutely. We are. Okay, well, thank you so much, Erica. We'll see you on IG.

Robin | Please mark your calendars for April 15, 2023. When we at Real Love Ready, will be hosting an in-person relationship summit held in Vancouver, British Columbia. With world-renowned experts who will spend a full day teaching us how to love better and build stronger loving relationships. Buy your tickets at realloveready.com. We will see you there.

Robin | Please visit realloveready.com to become a member of our community. Submit your relationship questions for our podcast experts. At reallovereadypodcast@gmail.com We read everything you send. Be sure to rate and review this podcast. Your feedback helps us get you the relationship advice and guidance you need. The Real Love Ready Podcast is recorded and edited by Maia Anstey. Transcriptions by otter.ai and edited by Maia Anstey. We at Real Love Ready, acknowledge and express gratitude for the Coast Salish people, the stewards of the land on which we work and play, and encourage everyone listening to take a moment to acknowledge and express gratitude for those that have stewarded and continue to steward the land that you live on as well.

Transcription by https://otter.ai & edited by Maia Anstey