Let’s Talk Love Podcast Season 2 Episode #13 with Dr. Terri Orbuch | Transcript

22.12.01

This transcript is from the Let’s Talk Love Podcast, available in our Podcast Feed.

Robin Ducharme | Welcome to Let's Talk Love. Today I am speaking with Dr. Terri Orbuch, also known as The Love Doctor. Terri is an author, speaker, therapist, and distinguished professor at Oakland University and the University of Michigan. Today, we discuss her book Five Simple Steps To Take Your Marriage From Good To Great. We discuss her landmark study, where she has been following the same 373 couples for the past 35 years. She shares many valuable small, yet consistent ways we can change our behavior and attitude to affect positive change and create more happiness in our romantic relationships. I hope you enjoy. Welcome to the Let's Talk Love podcast, where we flip the script on outdated narratives and cliches about love and relationships. I'm your host, Robin Ducharme, founder of Real Love Ready. This podcast is for anyone who wants to be better at love, regardless, of relationship status, We will talk about the intimate connections in our lives. And the challenges and complexities inherent in those partnerships. Through our no holds barred interviews with global experts we will gain insight about ourselves and learn new skills to improve our relationships. Because when we learn to love better, we make the world a better place. Are you ready for open and honest conversations about love? Let's get started.

Hello everyone, and welcome to this very exciting episode of Let's Talk Love. Today, I am so happy to introduce our guest, Terri Orbuch. Hi Terri!

Dr. Terri Orbuch | Hello, Robin, so wonderful to be here today. Thank you for having me.

Robin Ducharme | I'm so happy to have you. I know we've had a few challenges with our technology. But you know what, it's going to work out. Terri, I know you are well known for all the work you're doing as a relationship expert, you are a working therapist with couples,you've been in charge of one of the largest, longest studies of couples and singles, well not singles, couples and really individuals in relationship for the last 30 years. And you're also a professor at two of the universities in Michigan. And you're the love doctor, the love doctor! That's who we've got on the show today. So, so excited to have you, Terri.

Dr. Terri Orbuch | Thank you.

Robin Ducharme | Can you give us a background of how you got into doing this work as a professor and an author and a speaker and, and a therapist?

Dr. Terri Orbuch | Well, Robin, I grew up in a very therapy psychology oriented household as a child, my father was a psychiatrist or is a psychiatrist, my mother's a therapist, my sister's a therapist and my brothers in health care. So you know, my family was very relationship oriented, very psychology oriented. We sat around the table and asked why questions are asked these deep provoking questions all the time. So I grew up thinking about relationships, wondering the whys and hows of behaviors. So when I got to college, or even before in high school, I was really interested in psychology. And relationships always seem to be both personally and professionally, my love. And so I just sort of fell into it naturally, Robin, and I've loved all of it both as a researcher, a professor, a therapist, and the love doctor as well. The reason why I'm the love doctor is in 2004, I was a professor, researcher and therapist and I realized that nobody was reading my articles or what I was saying, not even my husband. And I decided that I wanted to translate the research into the public. And so I coined myself as the love doctor. And ever since it's been a fun journey and a fun ride.

Robin | Wow. Well, I just finished reading your book. It's called Five Simple Steps To Take Your Marriage From Good To Great. And these principles can be for anybody that's in a relationship, not just married. So I thought we would get into talking about this fantastic book because there were a lot of tangible tools and not complicated, which is what you teach in this book over and over again. Right? You say this book brings together this the latest scientific findings from your long term study, which I'd like to get into, and findings from other relationship research to give fresh insights, strategies and ideas about marriage. And so can we talk about the study that is still ongoing? Right, Terry? You study 373 couples, starting in 1986.

Dr. Orbuch | Correct. So in 1986, we started as you said with 373 couples, and we interview the individuals or the partner separately, as well as the couple. About 2000 questions about a lot of different things, not only their background and their childhood, but why they got married, how they met, and all that's going on in their relationship, all of the couples were registered, or they registered for licenses in a county in Michigan. And then we've been following them now for over 35 years, 46% of the couples got divorce. And as you mentioned in the introduction, even when individuals got divorced, we continue to follow those individuals. Because at the beginning, I was interested in the early marriage or early relationships. But then I became really interested in breakups and divorce and how and why people re-partner and what are the factors that predict who re-partners and who doesn't. So it's a wonderful study, as you said, it's the largest of its kind. And the sample or the group of couples that we started with, is really diverse, and it's representative of groups of people who got married in the United States in 1986. So it's a great group of couples to follow over time.

Robin | And you said 70? I think it was 71%. I wrote this down, did re-partner after divorce, so that was..

Dr. Orbuch | Which is a really great statistic, isn't it? That's a lot of people. Exactly. Yep. 71% of those who divorced re-partnered.

Robin | Yeah. And I think there is something, there was a lot I learned when I read this book, Terri. And one of the things that I think is a misconception, or maybe it's just this idea that people think, you know, marriage is a lot of work, and it's hard hard work. And you say no, it doesn't have to be, right?. So you say when we look at happy couples, we see that really great marriages are not the result of long hours of tedious hard work. In fact, it's actually the small changes in behavior and attitude that create happiness over time. And I think that's what really this book is reinforcing is all of the small ways daily, that make a difference in the long term happiness of your relationship.

Dr. Orbuch | And that's exactly true Robin, it really is the small changes in behaviors and attitudes, consistent behaviors and attitudes, but small changes, that really the happy couples did over time to stay happy. And to stay together. For example, I'll give an example. The happy couples talked a lot about what I label as affirmation. And affirmation is the degree to which we make our partner feel special, cared for, valued, that we don't take them for granted. And what the happy partners and couples did was, they woke up every single day and either said something small to their partner that made their partner feel special, or did something for their partner that made them feel special. So you can wake up every morning and say, I love you, you're wonderful. You make my life exciting. I love you now more than when I first met you. Or you can do something a hug or kiss. Make your partner their favorite dessert or like my husband put gas in your car, which is something so small, but it says...

Robin | Yeah. I don't I don't even think that's a small thing, Terri. Like I think that's unusual and so darn sweet. Your husband takes your car and gases it out. Because it's like one of those things that I would like, I don't love gassing my car up. I don't know who does. But it's like taking that like it's it actually feels like a big thing to me. I think that's so sweet.

Dr. Orbuch | And it is so sweet. And I've told my husband that like you just said, Robin, I don't like to put gas in the car. So the fact that he takes my car and does it says to me as the partner, I see you, I care about you. I value what you say. And those are the small things that really matter. Those are predictors of happiness over time and every single year of the study, and predicts who stays together. Now one of the really interesting things as you know from my book, is that that was more important for the man for the husbands in my study than the women.

Robin | This was an insight for me, is that this matters more for the male brain, male mind, right? Is the affirmation? Yeah, there's a word for this.

Dr. Orbuch | The affirmation of the husbands. So when husbands report it, or when male partners report that they don't receive affirmation often from their wives or their female partners, that couple and I'm talking all about heterosexual couples, that couple was almost two times more likely to divorce when they didn't receive that affirmation often. And that wasn't predictive when women said they didn't get it. And the reason you know, at first, I was really surprised, like you said, Robin, I'm like, why did that happen? Because as a woman, I want to be noticed and cared for and made to feel special. So we've really looked into that. And we did focus groups and talked to the people in our study. And what we found is that, as women, Robin, you and I get that affirmation from a lot of other people in our lives, we get it from our friends, and our neighbors, and our best friends, our sisters, our mothers, but for a man, at least in North America, they don't receive that affirmation from other people. So they crave it, and they need it from their female partners or their wives. And so that's why it's so important to their happiness and so important to the stability of the marriage or the relationship as well.

Robin | Yes, I would say that I think, even just for myself, I think if there are days and days and days that I feel like I'm not getting Yeah. Because I crave affirmations, and I know my husband does too. I will and I think women may you can, I don't know if your study showed this or not, Terri, but we are, I think, is it true that we are more able or willing to ask for that very verbally and for help. For instance, with that, like for instance, I'll say, I would really appreciate it if you thank me for dinner for making dinner. And my husband be like I just said it was so delicious. That's not, that's different than saying thank you for making me dinner. I'm asking very specifically for what I want to hear.

Dr. Orbuch | Exactly. I love that Robin. And that is so true, we have the ability to ask. But also what I found is that we have more people that we can ask that affirmation from. So if we don't ask it from our husband, or our partner, we can ask our best friend, I need help. Can you just remind me, you know, why I'm great, or what my strengths are. So we have this larger network. And that was the other interesting thing that I found we asked both the husbands and the wives to list five of their closest people that they feel the closest to in their life. And first of all, I loved the women, or the wives would say I don't want to list only five, can I list more?

Robin | Exactly, I can't just do five. I can't.

Dr. Orbuch | Exactly. Which means we have these bigger networks, we have more friends or people that we can ask. And the husbands also had fewer people that they felt closer to. So when we ask them to put those people physically in a circle, closer to them or farther away from them, the husband's closest people were farther away, except the romantic partner, except the wife. And as women, they wanted everybody all five people right smack right on top of themselves. So not only I think, are we more able to ask, but we have more people to ask as well.

Robin | So it was talking about frustration because you say contrary to popular belief, the biggest reason marriages fail is not conflict, lack of communication or sexual incompatibility. It's frustration. So what is the biggest cause of frustration between couples?

Dr. Orbuch | The biggest frustration is not having your expectations met. So I think we all run around with these should statements, these expectations about how our partners should treat us, or how relationships develop and occur over time. And when those expectations don't get met. We get frustrated and disappointed. And I can map out happiness and these couples over you know, 36 years. And when people report or when partners say something didn't happen as I expected it to or my partner should treat me like this and they don't. That's when you can see that happiness declines. Frustration eats away at happiness. And unfortunately, we all have those should statements. And we all have these unrealistic expectations.

Robin | Yes. that we got from our, you know, depending on how our caregivers, right, like we learn from our parents, right. Okay, how the relationship was supposed to go good or bad? Obviously media, movies, I mean, come on. Right? Watching movies, you think, oh, that's how my partner should be acting, because that's what we grew up learning. There's so many ways that we have these unrealistic expectations about how a partnership should go. And so you talk about myths, like these expectation myths that are very common among people.

Dr. Orbuch | That when we look at science are not true. But we all believe them, for example, that, you know, conflict is bad for a relationship, or that you have conflict, if you have conflict, that your relationship is in trouble. And I love to say that there were 12 couples in my study in year one that reported no conflict, we never fight or have disagreements, none of those couples were still together in year three of the study. So when you don't share what's wrong, and what's going on, and what's in your heart and mind, then partners don't discuss the really important things. So you're bound to have conflict and disagreements, and it's not really conflict that leads to unhappiness or divorce. It's how you handle the conflict.

Robin | Yes, exactly. Another myth is, I'm a parent. So I know this is not a true, this is not a truism, but the myth is having a child together will strengthen your marriage. And I think this just for people that don't have children yet to understand, actually, you think, okay, there's a difference between really wanting to have a child with somebody because you love them so much. I get that. But really, the reality is, is that children cause so much stress on a marriage, they make it more, more definitely more stressful, and less happy, especially the first couple years. It's so stressful.

Dr. Orbuch | Yes. Right. I mean, you're trying to manage seeing one another spending time with one another, who's gonna do the tasks and the household chores and take care of the child or the children. So absolutely. For many years, I would say, children do not make a relationship better.

Robin | Just the reality, right? Okay. The other one I really was actually a little bit. Yes, this was learning for me, was the myth is to be happy, you need to talk about challenges and problems often. You're thinking, Okay, we got to clear the air on a regular basis. I understand that, right? But you say that, well, this is a study, this is the science that men and women really do have different tolerances for how often it's necessary to discuss their relationship. So you have to pick your battles carefully. Let's talk about that.

Dr. Orbuch | Well, you know, it's interesting, because I'm not sure you have to pick your battles, because that to me, says, Don't bring up the small stuff. And one of the things I found is that happy couples actually bring up the small things. Yeah. Which is, again, contrary to that myth or that phrase. But in the study the men, when their wives wanted to talk a lot, they really felt that there were problems in the relationship and it was due to them. Men internalized all of these problems, when their wives or female partners would come to them and say, let's talk or she would just talk. So I think it's really important to pick the right time and situation. And be careful about how often you bring up those I statements, even though, you know, we always talk about I statements and, and you know, bringing things up with I'm uncomfortable or I was upset when you did this. Those are wonderful ways to bring up problems. But I think it's just important to remember how often you do it and picking the right time and situation. You want to really think about that before you do it too often as reported by men, which is fascinating again.

Robin | I guess, I think it goes back to this idea that you know, it's it can come on as like nagging, nagging, nagging, and always bringing up the negatives rather than the affirmations and turning and that's what this that's what you talk a lot about, right? Is that bringing more positives and addressing the positives in your relationship is gonna go way further than always talking about the problems and what you're not happy about with your partner? It makes perfect sense. I think it's just it's actually counter, it's almost like you think I really just want to clear the air. And I want to talk about these things that I'm not happy about. But actually, maybe there's a different approach. That's way more effective.

Dr. Orbuch | Exactly. You know, and even as a therapist, Robin, I always think about that, instead of asking a couple, what's the problem? Or why did you come to counseling or therapy, instead, I've changed my approach, and say, Tell me five positive things that you like about your partner, or that are good in your relationship. Because when couples or individuals focus on those strengths, those positives, as you just mentioned, it propels them forward, it makes them think about why they came together in the first place. And then when they do address the negatives, or the problems or the issues, it's so much easier, when you've already focused on the strengths and the positives.

Robin | Yes. So you have your five simple steps to take your marriage from good to great, we can't go through all five right now. But you have, for instance, this is a really, this was really good, it's your daily briefings. And you call this the 10-Minute Rule, where you come together as a couple for 10 minutes a day. And you said it's funny because I wrote, you know, I read that. Some couples are like, Oh, God, ten minutes is a long time. Some are like, that's not enough! And how do I do this every day, right? So you're just like, so there's depends on how you're looking at this. But you cannot tell us about the rule in the 10-Minute Rule.

Dr. Orbuch | Yes, the rule is that you want to talk about something other than these four topics, children or family, who is going to do what around the house, your relationship, or work. And people are always surprised about the relationship.

Robin | What are we going to talk about?

Dr. Orbuch | What are we going to talk about? It's fascinating because we asked all of the couples in the study, do you communicate? And almost everybody said, Yes, we communicate. But then when we asked further, what are you talking about? Most couples talk about those four topics, especially the children and who's going to do what around the house and family issues and what I label that as is the maintenance of the relationship.

Robin | Yes, that's maintenance communication.

Dr. Orbuch | Exactly. And so if you think about in another way.

Robin | It's not building intimacy.

Dr. Orbuch | That's not building intimacy. And that's really not communicating about important things. So think about when you were first together, what do you talk about? If you're listening, and you say, What am I going to talk about? Think about what you used to talk about when you first met. So you know, movies, music, you know, family when you were growing up. What do you like to do? Goals? My favorite is if you won the lottery? Where would you travel to? And why? Or, if you could have lunch with anyone dead or alive, would you have lunch with? And now I know that I asked my husband that like as we were dating, but you know, as years go on, you really put those questions on the back burner, and you do that maintenance talk instead. So remember to take the relationship off the back burner, and practice that 10 minute rule, and ask those different kinds of questions.

Robin | I really liked that because what you say you want to out in this in your daily briefings or really when you are communicating from this place of intimacy with your spouse is outlining four vital areas happy couples need to know about each other, their friends, their stressors, life dreams, and values. Really what you, I think, and I think it is the Gottman's who talk about looking at your partner with fresh eyes on a continuous basis, like this person, you think you know them really well. But actually, there's a lot you don't know. Right?

Dr. Orbuch | And people change as well.

Robin | Yes. We all change.

Dr. Orbuch | We all change, not only do we not know each other very well. But also, even if you get to know your partner, they can change be it work, or a life course stage or something happens. And so I love that, you look at your partner with fresh eyes all the time. Just like you did when you were dating. Think about it. Robin, you know, when we first met.

Robin | Yes, you are so intrigued, you're like telling me everything I want to know everything.

Dr. Orbuch | Exactly!

Robin | Yeah. So in your book, which I mean, I just I think everybody that's in a relationship and wants to stay in a relationship with this person to keep it fresh and new and you know, loving is is to get your book absolutely and on page 115 there are some really great openers. An example would be, what is the one thing you really want to accomplish in the next two years? Great question. Do you think you are closer to your mom or dad and why? That's a really, I just think there's really good prompts for questions that you could just ask. Right?

Dr. Orbuch | Right. And then another one that I because I just asked my husband last night is what are you most proud of doing in the last year? And I don't think I had asked that question. And we just had a wonderful discussion. And not only did I get to know him better, but I saw him with new fresh eyes. And that's really what you want to keep your relationship great over time.

Robin | Yep. So let's talk about the rut. When couples have been together, you know, they feel like, okay, we're in a rut, and how, how would you get out of it? So what are the three main causes of couples getting stuck in a relationship rut?

Dr. Orbuch | Well, I think, first of all, I should say before we even talk about the reasons and then how to get out of it, is that sometimes people like ruts, right. It's something that's predictable. It's the same old, same old because I always hear that from people. You know, I like predictability, I like being in a rut. And so what I found is that it's okay to be in that rut, or have predictability in your relationship for a while. But when it happens, for too long, that's when again, it can eat away at the happiness. So sometimes ruts occur because people live two parallel lives, right? We forget to check in, we forget to notice one another. Sometimes it's also because we think we know each other, right? And I always ask people, if you think you know, one another, do you know what your partner was wearing, when they left your house this morning, or when you left the house this morning? And so sometimes we forget to notice and look and see our partner. And then other times ruts occur because we just do this same old, same old thing. And if you want to get out of that rut, you need to gently shake the relationship. And what I mean by that, is you know, from reading the book, Robin is that you want to do new and different things. You want those things to be surprising. And in order to add a little bit of passion, as you get out of the rut, you want to do what I call arousal producing activities. And those are activities that have an adrenaline rush, so that adrenaline or arousal can get transferred to your partner or your relationship. So new activities, surprising activities, and then arousal producing activities will gently shake or get you out of the rut.

Robin | So examples would be, you know, just like you said, when you're first dating somebody, you're, you're maybe taking this person to one of your favorite restaurants, or they're doing the or you're maybe going to a place together, you've never been to before. That's just it is quite a simple thing you could do even if it's just okay, it doesn't have to be expensive, okay, I've never been to this, let's go to the drive thru, or drive that drive in over there, grab a shake, and go to that park bench that we've never sat at before. Just new environments and different experiences that you've you've never done before.

Dr. Orbuch | Anything that's new that you haven't done together before. Exactly. So like you said, it can be a new restaurant and a new grocery store, you can decide that the two of you have never danced together, so you go dancing, or you've never done a market in the morning, anything new or novel can get you out of that rut, reduce boredom, and add a little excitement. And in terms of surprising activities, which is a specific category of activities, anything that has that, oh "wow, I didn't know" kind of response. So you can ask a new question. Like, one of the questions that we talked about before, like who are you closest to to when you were growing up your mom or your dad or you know, I've never asked you did you have a pet? Did you want to have a pet? All kinds of things that you never asked your partner and then the answer is like "Oh, wow." Or my favorite example is one of the wives in my study took her husband around on a treasure hunt all around the city. And then ended up at a restaurant at the end. He was so surprised every single time he went to somewhere different on the treasure hunt and then ended up and she was there. It was just that Oh, wow. So any mystery and surprise.

Robin | I think that's really sweet. And it also shows just how much attention she put into organizing that for him.

Dr. Orbuch | I love that example. Every single time I think about that, I'm like, Oh, that was so wonderful and nice.

Robin | I really liked that. So one of our, so let's talk about sex and passion. Because obviously, that's a very important part of a relationship. One of our community members is asking about reigniting passion. And first of all, I wanted to quote you, you save for the large majority of couples in your study, the frequency of sex declined over time, which it does. For the happiest couples, the quantity of sex was not predictive of marital happiness while the quality was.

Dr. Orbuch | Exactly. So the couples, as you said, decrease the frequency of sex and sex can mean all kinds of different things. But any meaning it decreased over time. And as we've described, there's so many different reasons you have children, you're working, you're volunteering, and you have your family to think about. So there's lots of different reasons why the frequency of sex declines over time. There are also health issues, and body image issues. But what I did find is that when couples enjoyed sex and the quality of sex got better, that's when that was predictive of happiness and being happier over time. So quantity, I mean, quality sorry, not quantity was much more predictive or lead to happiness, and how to, you know, recreate or reignite that passion. Well, we talked about new activities, we talked about surprising activities, mystery, arousal-producing activities, and those I explained or anything that has that adrenaline rush. So I talk to couples a lot about exercising together, going on a roller coaster ride together, dancing together, going to a comedy club together, where you get that big adrenaline laugh, right? As long as you're doing it with your partner, then again, that arousal or adrenaline can transfer you to your partner. And what you find is that we have an increase in passion, and an increase in a desire to have sex, you can also go away for, you know, outside of your home. One of the things that the wives in my study said is that getting out of the house took away that list in their mind of things that they had to do or needed to do. And so that getting out of the house, going even to a hotel down the road as one of the wives said.

Robin | Mhmm. In the same town if you can't get away.

Dr. Orbuch | Exactly. It doesn't have to be in a different country or city. But getting out of the house was so very important. So those are some of the things that the couples and partners in my study said reignited the passion, you know, led to an increase in a desire to have sex and increased the quality as well of the sex that they were having over time.

Robin | So the fifth step in your book is about keeping costs low, and benefits high. Can you please explain this concept to us?

Dr. Orbuch | Well, this is very similar to Gottman's orientation, that or his approach that you need five positives to every one negative. And what I found in my study is that for couples that was extremely important as well, they needed to have five benefits or benefits that outweighed the costs. And there were several costs, as I talk about in this chapter that...

Robin | You talk about costly behaviours.

Dr. Orbuch | Costly behaviors, thank you. Exactly, Robin. Costly behaviors, like not dealing with conflict constructively. So the couples who were happy over time talked a lot about managing conflict well and doing conflict well, so they didn't storm off. Or Stonewall, like just leaving a discussion, they tried to be calm and take a break when things got out of control. And a break to them was going downstairs and having a glass of water or taking a walk. They talked about using their I language, and they talked about validating each other, so that when they were able to manage the costly behavior of conflict, they were able to see the benefits and be happier over time. Another costly behavior was not dealing with family very well. For the wives in my study in law's or their partner's family was very stressful. And it was very difficult to manage the inlaws. But when the wives could handle or manage the stress of the inlaws, or the partner's family, they were significantly more likely to be happier over time, and that marriage was more likely to stay together over time. So looking at these very common, costly behaviors, when couples are able to handle those costly behaviors, or I call it to audit them, reduce the costly behaviors, then the couples are happier over time. But I should say, Robin, that it's the last chapter of my book, because again, it's so important to implement or include all of these positive behaviors first.

Robin | Exactly. I love the last chapter the most because it does go through. I mean, there are tips and tools throughout the whole book about improving your relationship in simple ways. And consistent as you say, but the last chapter really is about you know, the motivational secrets that you call the principles to live your marriage by and your relationship by. And number one, which I was just like yeah, I agree with this one is we already talked about this is sweating the small stuff, because I think those little things over time, can build resentment, frustration, all these things that actually can over time lead to divorce. So you want to talk about little things.

Dr. Orbuch | Exactly and little things become big, right?

Robin |Exactly. I mean, you're roommates with this person for the rest of your relationship. And if those little things can add up. If you're like, I don't like the way that's going down here. Like, let's talk about this, this really upsets me on a regular basis. Right. So let's talk about those little, little things.

Dr. Orbuch | And, you know, when I talk to the couples in my study, they would say, you know, the media or people tell us not to talk about those small things, that to pick your battles, or, you know, if the and they would say, you know, it's the toilet paper, it's the toothpaste, right? It's you know, how they empty the dishwasher, or load the dishwasher. And what they said was, you really need to talk about those small things as though they're small. As I said, and you just mentioned, they become really big, and they pile up resentment and resentment, then it's really hard to unpack. But it's really easy to talk about the toilet paper or the toothpaste or the dishwasher at the beginning, much more difficult over time, as things pile up. So sweat the small stuff in your relationship.

Robin |And you can see it nicely. It doesn't have to be like that, right? It's, I would love it if...

Dr. Orbuch | Yes, I would love it if you could turn the toilet paper the other way, rather than there's a right way or there's a wrong way. Here's what I really would like, or here's what I really need. And then you have the discussion.

Robin |Yep. And so a few of the other really great secrets. Lighten up. What about that one? This is about bringing levity to your relationship right and more fun. This is so important. That's actually one of the things you say is like, can become, you know, the demise of a relationship as well is like if it's too transactional, it's too relational all the time.

Dr. Orbuch | Too serious, right?

Robin |It's just too serious. It's like where's the fun and enjoyment you need in your relationship? It's such a huge, important part, the joy, the joy!

Dr. Orbuch | The joy and the laughter and the humor and both husbands and wives. Both men and women talked about this, laughing and having fun. And a good sense of humor in their partner and themselves is so important. You know, life is difficult and challenging at times. It's serious, and I know that you can't just ignore those serious things. But try to remember that it's also relationships are also about fun and laughter and positive things. So do fun things and go and laugh together. You know, laughter is so important to relieve stress, it's so important to well-being and health, and it's so important to the happiness in a relationship. So that's so very, very important.

Robin |Yeah. And you say, be an inspiration to your spouse, I really liked this, this one was great, because it's, it's the principle that you if, if you're wanting something in your partner, you become that and you do that, and they most often will follow suit.

Dr. Orbuch | And it's a great, you know, effect in psychology, the law of reciprocity, that if you do, your partner will do the same in kind. And that's especially true for talking about affirmation, if anyone listening is not feeling affirmed in their relationship, one of the ways to receive affirmation is to give it again, and again. And I always think about, you know, when you see a really good friend that you haven't seen in a really long time, and you, you know, see that person and they say, oh, Terri, you know, you look great automatically, we say, Oh, you look great, too, right. So there is this law of reciprocity. So if you want to change in your relationship, or you're not feeling like you are getting what you want or need, you can tell that person with I language, but you can also give it and be an inspiration, for your partner, because then they will also, hopefully, overtime not immediately do the same in kind. And I always get this question, Robin, you know, can I read this book? And do it myself? Or do I have to read the book with my partner, or my spouse? First, it would be great if you could read it with your spouse or your partner, but you don't have to. And that's really what this being an inspiration for your partner is about. Read the book, implement change in small ways, and it can then make your partner do the same, but it can also lead to greatness in your relationship.

Robin |Oh, absolutely. I'm so happy that we had this time together, Terri. I wanted to close with this amazing quote in the back of your book. I love it. Because it really sums up I think what we've been talking about. You say here's wishing you the best of luck as you traverse your life journey with your spouse. Along the way remember that maintaining a great marriage should not feel like hard work. All it takes are simple behavioral changes to make your marriage great. Seize the moment right now to make your marriage exceptional. So, I really got a lot out of is Terri and I so enjoyed our conversation today. And I'm so excited to see you on IG Live tomorrow.

Dr. Orbuch | Yes! I'm excited too.

Robin |I think you're just an excellent teacher and an amazing speaker. And obviously, you're a great therapist.

Dr. Orbuch | Thank you. I appreciate the great questions too. And I'm so happy that you enjoyed the book and if I can say anything at the end, part of that quote is really to seize the moment. Everyone deserves an exceptional great relationship. So that if you're in a relationship that's just okay or good or enh use these strategies, these simple changes to make it great and exceptional now, don't wait.

Robin |Yes. Life's too short. Seize the moment. Seize the day!

Dr. Orbuch | Seize the day. I love that Robin Perfect.

Robin |Thank you so much, Terri.

Robin | Please mark your calendars for April 15, 2023. When we at Real Love Ready, will be hosting an in-person relationship summit held in Vancouver, British Columbia. With world-renowned experts who will spend a full day teaching us how to love better and build stronger loving relationships. Buy your tickets at realloveready.com. We will see you there.

Robin | Please visit realloveready.com to become a member of our community. Submit your relationship questions for our podcast experts. At reallovereadypodcast@gmail.com We read everything you send. Be sure to rate and review this podcast. Your feedback helps us get you the relationship advice and guidance you need. The Real Love Ready Podcast is recorded and edited by Maia Anstey. Transcriptions by otter.ai and edited by Maia Anstey. We at Real Love Ready, acknowledge and express gratitude for the Coast Salish people, the stewards of the land on which we work and play, and encourage everyone listening to take a moment to acknowledge and express gratitude for those that have stewarded and continue to steward the land that you live on as well.

Transcription by https://otter.ai & edited by Maia Anstey