Let’s Talk Love Podcast Season 2 Episode #9 with Rafaella Smith-Fiallo | Transcript

22.11.03

This transcript is from the Let’s Talk Love Podcast, available in our Podcast Feed.

Robin Ducharme | Welcome to this episode of Let's Talk Love. Today I am speaking with Rafaella Smith-Fiallo. Rafaella is a relationship sex and trauma therapist and educator with over 15 years of experience working in sexual health and sexuality education. Today we talk about the importance of sexual self care. We discuss setting sexual boundaries, and also how to heal in all areas of our lives through the power of pleasure. I really appreciate Rafaella's teaching of using pleasure work to help with healing work. This is really good stuff. I hope you enjoy. Welcome to the Let's Talk Love podcast, where we flip the script on outdated narratives and cliches about love and relationships. I'm your host, Robin Ducharme, founder of Real Love Ready. This podcast is for anyone who wants to be better at love, regardless, of relationship status, We will talk about the intimate connections in our lives. And the challenges and complexities inherent in those partnerships. Through our no holds barred interviews with global experts we will gain insight about ourselves and learn new skills to improve our relationships. Because when we learn to love better, we make the world a better place. Are you ready for open and honest conversations about love? Let's get started.

Hello, everyone, and welcome to this episode of Let's Talk Love. I'm very happy to introduce our guest today, Rafaella Smith-Fiallo. Rafaella is a relationship, sex and trauma therapist and educator. And today we're gonna dive into talking about a concept that I'm learning about through Rafaella. Healing our trauma through pleasure. And so I'm so interested to learn from you and talk with you today, Rafaella about all your expertise around this, which I think is just such an interesting concept.

Rafaella Smith-Fiallo | I'm really excited. Yes. Usually, I know you have a lot of different things you probably want to ask, but I'm just gonna say what's coming up for me. Because people typically when they hear the word pleasure, they instantly think of sex and sexual intimacy. Same way, when we talk about intellect, if you just say the word pleasure and intimacy, people automatically think sex, right? And so that just leaves so many things outside of the box of not only our experiences but our healing as well. And so in my work first working with traumatized folks like in the veteran population, and then having my private practice, where I was specifically working with folks around sex and sexuality, I started seeing this big, but often missed overlap between pleasure and how pleasure can really be the route that we can take for our healing process.

Robin Ducharme | Oh, my gosh, I just think and I want to dive into this during our discussion because I know from personal experience when you are going through trauma in our lifetimes, we're all going to experience levels of trauma, circumstantial, out of our control things that may happen to us. And I love this concept of using pleasure to work through that, that pain, and that and that trauma, so that we can clear it from our from our experience. Wow.

Rafaella Smith-Fiallo | Absolutely. And I just wanted to say when you said that, like, you know, we all will experience some type of trauma or having exposure to it, I think it's really vitally important to just let that sit for a second because it's so common that people minimize their experiences, they compare their stress or their traumas to other people, they feel like theirs isn't important enough or big enough, or dramatic enough. And so then they feel like, they can't take up space with their stories. And they keep a lot of stuff within themselves and hidden. And it really starts to kind of prolong the healing process, because it's like, where do you go, if you have this experience, and you don't feel like it matches what everyone is talking about on IG, or when you turn on the TV and you hear conversations about trauma or you read a book, then where do you go for that and so just to remind folks that we all have our different experiences with stress and trauma within our families, within our communities, within our workspaces wherever they may be. And so whatever that is for you, it is valid, and you are worth the space that it takes to talk about.

Robin Ducharme | Yes. So Rafaella, I ask all of my guests this question, because I think it gives us an idea about where you're at with a few things in your life. So can you tell us what in your life right now is giving you the most joy and what is one of your biggest challenges that you're facing right now?

Rafaella | The most joy right now? I would say, okay, the same thing came up for both of your questions. So one thing that's giving me a lot of joy right now is diving into the different ways that I can be vulnerable. That will help in my own healing process. So it's not a secret, like I tell folks, I'm also a trauma survivor. And I let people know. And as you see it all over the place, like you know, healing is not linear. It's not a one stop shop. It's ongoing. And the more that I do this work, the more that I realize that, oh, man, I still have a lot of things to work on, right? And so the joy in that is that I have the support, I have the resources to continue on that journey. And when things get hard, I can slow down, right? And it doesn't mean that that's a failure, it doesn't mean that I'm not doing something correctly, it just means that I'm listening to my body and taking a pause, if and when I decide that I need to do that, and really holding that space within myself without comparing to where I think I'm supposed to be on this healing journey. And then I think in terms of the challenge, it's the same thing, because it's like this back and forth, like, oh, man, like, am I still dealing with this? I'm getting this trigger. Or I didn't say that the way I wanted to, or hurt someone's feelings, or I felt hurt by somebody else's actions or words. But that's just part of it. Like, if we don't have those speed bumps, right, then we don't get those reminders and messages of where we need to continue to stretch. Where we still need to sit in zones of discomfort. So that way, we can build in more skills and resources and tolerance as well. And then also letting people know, like, hey, you know, that didn't feel good. How can we repair together? Or what do you need from me to repair because just because I have a certain struggle doesn't mean that I don't mess up either. Right? And so sometimes it's like, we have to remember that well, or we're talking about me, I have to remember that too. And I, that it can be hard because like, Man, sometimes I think I'm better than that. But like, we're all still growing and learning mistakes happen. But the real piece of community and togetherness happens when we can admit that. And we can make space for people to tell us what we're not doing right for them, that helps them or that harms them. So that's like my joy, and my challenge. And I'm also happy that I'm comfortable with that, being in that space, where it's like, Dang, this is hard, but it can be pleasurable, which goes back to, like that other piece of healing is pleasurable.

Robin | So your work, you are a therapist, a sex and trauma therapist, how did you end up in this line of work? And then I'd really like to step into really talking more about what sexual self care is. So really a little bit of your background, and then we'll go start into that.

Rafaella | Okay, so I was a sexuality educator way before, like a long time ago, just on a peer level. Before that, before it was offical. I was just like the neighborhood kid who would share information who was using Ask Jeeves. To just find information for people. Remember what Ask Jeeves was? It's like Google. I was on, you know, the Britannica, the Encyclopedia all types of things, just learning about sex and sexuality. But in the peer level, I was at my high school, I was actually paired up with different students as a peer leader to help them integrate into high school. And I started finding that a lot of the students I was paired with, were dating or having sex, were putting themselves in really complicated like, they would say, messy, dramatic situations and relationship wise, people were getting pregnant, had STIs, all types of things. And so I kind of fell into that role of using these years of just education, to work with them and to partner with, with the school to kind of provide more education around that. And then that kind of just followed me when I was in college, I worked in the dorms. We had a lot of things around sexuality, gender identity happening, people, you know, you go to college, you want to branch out you want to explore, and I found myself in that role again, where I was creating programming in our dormitories for people to learn more about gender identity, sexuality, to increase or decrease feelings that people were having in terms of like their own complex feelings of who they were as a sexual being and their gender. And then, while I was in college, I was majoring in psychology and I always thought my plan was to become I'm a child psychiatrist, specifically working with children who engage in inappropriate sexual behaviors. And children who needed more guidance and education to help them as opposed to automatically sending them to, like some type of incarcerated system be that juvenile detention or something like that. So that was my goal. I don't really work with children now. As I anticipated. I work more so with adults. But that was kind of how I started, it was just kind of going through those experiences, having my own trauma experiences and sexual trauma experiences as well. There's like, I want to grow and learn from this. I also want to protect people from this experience, and I want to help people explore better, healthier, more appropriate ways to express their sexual desires and sexual behaviors. And then the other question was about...

Robin | Sexual sexual care. So can you tell us about that, because that really is the foundation of a lot of your work, is teaching people about bringing more sexual self care into their lives? And that's a big topic, that encompasses a lot.

Rafaella | It does. Because self care is coming up all the time. I mean, really, in the last, what, 6-8 years, it's self care everywhere to the point now it's commercialized because capitalism, right, and everyone's trying to sell you something to tell you how you can be better at self care. And what I found was that when conversations around sex and self care came up, it was more so around like, masturbate, you know, use masturbation to take care of yourself sexually, right? Or how to be in a healthy sexual relationship as a form of self care. Versus what I felt like was missing around the sexual self care piece was, how do we, that's valid too like, yes, we can use masturbation to provide ourselves with self care, right to release. But also, how do we have a better understanding of our sexual selves? And how that understanding can help us care for ourselves. What are the decisions that we make, that can promote our sexual health? Right around barriers, contraception, right, all the way down to the people that we hook up with. Right? And the things that we may use on our bodies for sex during sex, right, like even sex toys. I know I did this one session, I was just talking about sex toys and sexual safety, and how unclear sometimes it can be what the material is of the sex toy, and how it can be toxic for our bodies, right. But that's not something that may not be on the labeling. And it can cause a lot of mistrust and confusion when it comes to, should I really be using this product or not, because it's not clear on the label, which is part of like the scheme, right? Like, oh, we're just not going to put it on there because it's a novelty item. Right. So like, things like that, that we don't talk about in terms of our long term care of self care, and our sexual health, how it's all combined, and it gets, it gets forgotten, because we are usually just talking about masturbation and sex in general, when we're talking about sexual self care. So I just wanted to integrate that more, because that's what's coming up. And when we're more confident about what we want, what we're using on our body how to advocate for ourselves, then, of course, that is going to promote our self care, and our ability to advocate for ourselves because we know we want to know what we're talking about without feeling like we have to kind of second guess ourselves or go with the flow or go with someone else's flow instead of creating our own.

Robin | You have said having a pleasurable sex life is more difficult when you're disconnected from and unforgiving to your body size oppression and an overabundance of body shaming messages don't make it any easier, right? However, you say developing practices that center on awareness, thanks, and gifts can help begin transforming your relationship with your body. I think this is so obviously, it's very prevalent, right? Especially in women, those that advise females is like you are so it's so so much body consciousness and these messages that we're given that a lot of us don't have such a loving perspective about our bodies. And that of course transfers into, can transfer into the bedroom with our partners. So can you talk to us about body appreciation rituals, and what that can look like.

Rafaella | Absolutely. Well you know like you hit it when you were talking about the awareness piece because, you know, we can be so critical, like everyone can be so critical of the body, while also being so detached. and unaware of what's going on. So we're, you know, we're looking into the mirror to point out all the flaws, what do we need to fix what needs to be tucked? You know, how often do you look into the mirror and just be like, Damn, you know, I like this, I like this, I like the shape. I like these colors, I like this design, this pattern that I'm wearing, you know, I appreciate certain body parts for what they're able to do for me, and how I'm able to complete tasks or whatever the case is. But usually it is to be really critical and fix something. And so, when we're talking about building body appreciation, one thing is, how can you start just inviting more awareness and into your own body of what is wanting what it's doing for you, without judgment without pressure, just to kind of start building that relationship of trust back in transferring to other areas. So often, you know, even right now, you know, if you're like, I'm really thirsty, or I really gotta go to the bathroom, but I just need to hold it in and not you know, for the next 40 minutes or whatever, I have to be present and do this, right? Well, what if you just said, Hey, can we take a break? I have to gop to the bathroom. Or, you know, I need to fill up my water because my throat is really dry. But we're taught to, to silence those, those parts of us ourselves. Because it's inconvenient, it's not professional, we'll have to do too much editing or whatever, whatever the reasons are. But then it teaches our bodies that we're not going to listen to them, that we don't care about what's happening internally, that we are prioritizing some other message over what our body is needing and feeling in this moment. So when I'm doing workshops and things like that I have been trying, I'm really more conscious and intentional, I let people know, like, Hey, I may need to take a break. And I invite you to do that as well. If I'm doing trauma work, I let people know, like I may need to do some deep breathing myself to make sure that I'm centered and I invite you to do the same thing. Because I also believe that is part of the modeling that we need to see. It's part of that permission giving Oh, wow, Rafealla is making space for me to do this. And she's also doing it, then that I can do that with someone else. Right? And as the way that we build community understanding about what it means to be with one another, by first starting to model these behaviors, but we have to, we have to do it ourselves first, and believe that we deserve to do it. And so just when people are asking, like, hey, what's the first thing I can do is just like, okay, when you're hungry do you go get something to eat? When you have to go to the bathroom? How long? Are you bouncing your knee? Before you're finally like, Okay, I'm gonna go to the bathroom. Right? If you're feeling cold and chilly, do you get a blanket? You know how long in between when your body sends this message of a need or want desire and discomfort? Do you then address it? And so start there first, by saying, okay, body when you give me a message, I'm going to do that thing as soon as I can. And if I can't, you can just internally say, I hear you body, thank you. I'm going to get to you in a second as soon as this whatever. But don't ignore it completely. Right? Don't just push it down, express that you recognize it and then follow through. Like, don't just leave it hanging don't lie to your body like, Oh, I'm gonna get to you later. No, say I feel it. Recognize it. I'm gonna get to it. So that's one thing that I think I won't say it's easy, because we're so used to just sitting in discomfort and not listening to ourselves. But I think it is an instrumental beginning point.

Robin | Yeah. So let's talk about talking about sex. So some people think that talking about sex and boundaries will dampen the mood, while others know that it will only enhance the sexual experience. Through consistent communication and even trial and error you and your partner, or partners will learn more about touch, desires, fantasies, sexual history, and personal limits. I really related to this, because I think the more that you can talk about it with your partner, or with somebody that you may think that you want to sleep with I mean, the better it will be. This is all about communication, and how important that is, right?

Rafaella | Yeah, yeah. I remember one time I was working with someone and they were just like, but I don't want to ruin the mood. And I just sat back I was like, but isn't the mood kind of already like not I wouldn't say it's ruined, but it's already not where you want it to be because you are not present. You are in your head. You're not fully feeling it. You want something that you're not saying? So what makes it so that we prioritize someone else's mood over our own? And so and why don't we recognize that the mood is not really where we want it to be and are hesitating to say something to make the mood better, in fear that the other person is going to feel like, Oh, you just ruined the mood, right? And so just being able to kind of reflect on that can be really helpful to say, oh, yeah, you're right the mood, the mood is not what I want it to be already. So I'm not going to worry about it being ruined, it can only increase from here. And if my partner responds in a way, that is not affirming to mutual pleasure, right, that is not recognizing that something is off for that want to make a change that I think that's information that we need. So often are we denying ourselves access to information that is really important for us to make the choices and actions that we want to for a healthy, pleasurable, satisfying sexual experience. And so just kind of keep that in mind, too. I remember. So this is my own experience. This was almost 12 years ago, probably at least. And I was dating this guy, and we were talking about, well I was like, Hey, want to talk about STIs, and testing and all these other things, right? And they just start yelling at me, like, Oh, my God, you think I'm dirty, you think I'm out here, just having sex with whoever and blah, blah, blah, and they were very aggressive and loud. And we were also in public. And I was just like, taken aback and completely turned off, of course. And I'm just like, This is good.

Robin | This is good information.

Rafaella | I'm really glad we had this encounter. This is good information. Because if this is how you respond to me in a public place with clothes on, I don't want to be in a non public place with closed off with you. Right. And so you know, sometimes people feel like, oh, I don't want to bring this stuff up, but bring it up. Because their response will tell you so much about this is a person that you want to engage with. So instead of closing yourself off from that discomfort, what can what can you possibly gain from that experience? Either they will be like, Oh, shit, I'm glad you brought that up. That's important to me, too. Or they have their own shame that they're working through, that can come out in a healthy, unhelpful way. Or they can completely be like the person I mentioned, who felt like I was insulting them. So that's one thing I wanna say is like, Yes, bring it. Yeah, go ahead.

Robin | Yes, I think that lends to what you teach that what you work with your clients which is setting and understanding your sexual boundaries. Right? And, and how, like, how do you help people communicate and enforce them? Like you talk about hard versus soft boundaries.

Rafaella | What's hard, right? Because we are typically not brought up in a way where we are encouraged to have boundaries. So usually, when we think of as kiddos, right, we don't have, we don't have any say so. Right? I remember, like, people talking about, like, you know, being forced to hug other relatives being forced to share their toys, not being allowed to tell an adult No, you know, things like that. And so, you are brought up this way, and they boom, you're an adult, and you're expected to have it all figured out and be able to advocate for yourself and not be a people pleaser, and you know, all this other stuff. So when people are struggling with it, I first like to just validate that, like, yes, we this is a new skill that is strengthened over time. So it takes practice, but don't feel like something is wrong with you. Because this is really a societal expectation from people is that we don't have boundaries, and we don't ever advocate for ourselves. So that's the first thing. And when you're trying to figure out boundaries, sometimes people are like, I don't even know how to know what my boundaries are, where do I start? And so it goes back to listening to your body. Right? When you're in a situation or you even hear something, what comes up for you? Do you have a tightness in your chest? Do you feel something going around in your stomach, the shoulders automatically go to your ears? Do you notice that your fingers are tapping away, like what's happening in your body, that can be a message or a signal that maybe that was a boundary, maybe I need to pay a little bit more attention to what this situation is telling me. And then you can start getting into a groove of having a better, again, having that relationship with your body, but a better understanding of what your boundaries are. So that way, you can then talk about them. And once you kind of get into that flow, then you can start practicing with what it means to set a boundary and then enforce a boundary and then reinforce a boundary because it takes several times especially if you've been in relationships where people are used to just like, oh Rafaella's always going to say yes, or Robin never tells me no, whatever the case is and when you do that thing differently, they're like, I'm not used to this, I don't like this, who are you to tell me whatever the case is. So just, you know, knowing that sometimes you have to expect that response and it doesn't feel good. But that doesn't mean that you should take it away. It doesn't mean that oh, your boundary was wrong, it just means that people have to adjust. And the people who want to have you in their lives and who understand and value boundaries, they will adjust. And even if they mess up a couple of times, doesn't mean that they don't care. It's just they're getting used to it as well. But keep reinforcing it so that they are knowing like, Okay, you're really serious. And I need to work on this. Because why do I keep crossing my friend’s boundary, right? Like my friend told me, this is a boundary, and I keep crossing over it. And that gives me some time to reflect as well. So that's the first thing, it's just like, nothing's wrong with you, takes awareness and takes practice, and the people in your life who value that will stick around, and they will continue to work on it. So if it becomes hard doesn't mean quit or give up just means you've got to keep on going.

Robin | Well, I know that there was a difference, you know, you talk about the difference between a hard boundary and a soft boundary. And I think, you know, you gave that example, when you were you know, before you even engaged in sexual activity with that man. And it was like, okay, he's putting up these major red flags, like, you know, he's not even willing to talk to you about STIs he's just completely in whatever defense mode, but I mean, it would be a hard boundary for somebody, it's like, I need to know that you're clear of STIs. Or that we could talk about STIs before we even have sex. I mean, that would be a hard boundary. For example.

Rafaella | I mean, I think that's it, let's go with that example. And I think in the workbook, I have an example around condom use, I believe, but it's like, you know, the soft, the hard boundary could be I don't sleep with partners without a protective barrier. Right? A softer boundary could be I don't sleep with people without a protective barrier unless we get tested for STIs and then we have a discussion about it. Another soft one could be I, I say this is a polyamorous person, right. And so maybe they have like a fluid bonded partner. So that's a partner in which they have an agreement where they don't use protective barriers, and there's an exchange of fluids, right, bodily fluids. And so for that example, it could be alright, so I use protective barriers, with anyone that's not part of a fluid bonded partnership relationship. And so you can kind of break that down. But it's all based on like, what you're comfortable with the things that can make you or help you feel more comfortable and confident in changing those expectations and boundaries. But that's up to you. Right? Because sometimes, again, people are going to try to push those limits and say things like, well, you let XYZ person do this. So what's different? Oh, well the differences, I let them that's it. I mean, not you because that's an agreement that we have. This is not the same thing. But I went through this, this state, this long phase where I was like, I'm not a toucher, I'm not a hugger, you know, I can do a handshake, I can do a fist bump, or whatever the case is, right? And I realized, like, over time, I was comfortable giving hugs to certain people and not other people. So like, my really good friends, we could hug strangers. I'm not hugging you, right? And someone actually said, they went in for a hug and I said Oh, no, you know, I'm not really a hugger but you know, we can do a handshake or something like that. And then they saw me hug another person. And they approached me and asked me, why did I hug them if I told them that I wasn't a hugger? And I was just, I was so shocked at first, like, what?! Like first of all, you're watching me. And second of all, like, they I guess they, you know, they felt insulted. They felt like I lied to them and all this other stuff. And they didn't understand like your boundaries can change for different people based on your relationship based on safety, based on familiarity, right, based on my desire. And so knowing that you have the right to do that you can have different boundaries for different situations for different people and different relationships. And if someone is not okay with that, then that's one then you don't even have to, you don't have to explain anything that you don't want to explain. And you can make those decisions for yourself. And so that was a memory that just popped up. I was just like, what this is so shocking, but people do feel that way and they can feel however they want to feel but at the end of the day, that's my boundary that I'm going to uphold and maintain. And now, even if I wanted you to be a close person, I don't know if you're my type of person now. After that experience, right. So that's kind of like the soft in the hard and like, you know, based around your area, what you're comfortable with and uncomfortable with. And just the other factors that make you, that lend to you feeling like I can make an informed or more informed decision around whatever this scenario is.

Robin | Yeah. So let's talk about your work with, you're an advocate of using pleasure work to help with healing work. Can you explain to us what this what this really means?

Rafaella | Yes, so it's it's kind of twofold. So the first piece is really simple around how our exposure and experiences with pleasure can be healing, because one, it affirms that we deserve to have pleasurable experiences. And in a world that tells us that life is and should be, it's always going to be hard. That says that certain people based on their size, based on their race, their economic status, and all these other things, deserve more input whatever thing then you, right. So as we start to really smash those isms, and recognizing that you, your whole self, regardless of what you look like, or better yet, specifically, because of who you are, and, and what you look like and what you have, that you deserve pleasure, just the way that you are. Another piece of that, is that moving towards pleasure, can help define for us what it is that we want, what it is that yeah, what it is that we want, and what feels good to us. And so as we start to challenge this idea of, oh, do I deserve pleasure or not? From relationships to experiences to food, right? And say, Yes, I do, I deserve this. Because I exist, I don't have to earn it, I don't have to work a certain amount, I don't have to have a certain type of money, I don't need to look a certain way. I deserve pleasurable things and experiences. Because I'm on this earth, it can really challenge those messages that say otherwise. And then as we start to lean into those pleasurable experiences, then it pushes us in that direction of saying, oh, so I'm going to prioritize what feels good. And the things that aren't in alignment with that, I'm not going to prioritize, right? So from relationships, with friends, with family to bosses, right? If it's not making me feel good, if it's not honoring me, if I don't feel like these people, or this person sees my worth, then that is not for me. It's not a pleasurable experience. And so I am going to rid myself of it, right?

Robin | You talk about the role of purpose, play, pleasure, and desire, and how all of those have an instrumental part in helping to heal trauma of any kind. Whether it's childhood trauma, divorce, like abuse, a car accident, losing someone you love, and how purpose, play, pleasure, and desire can help you move through that trauma. Can you? Can you explain, like, you know, I know you work with you said you work with veterans, and you work with people that have experienced trauma in many areas of their lives? And how can you give us examples of things that you would promote that they do in their lives to help them move through that trauma?

Rafaella | Mm hmm. So the first aspect of play if you're an adult, you may just, you may be able to relate regardless if you feel like you have a strong, if your life has been strongly impacted by trauma or not, because after a certain age, if it's not a specific type of play, like sports, or like game night on a Friday, or something like that, some people are just like, You're too old for that you're being childish. Life is all work, no play. That's literally thing right? All work, no play, people will say that. Or sometimes you have to specify is this trip for business or is it for pleasure? Why do I have to choose one. But from a from from a trauma lens. And we're looking at a person who's been traumatized. A person who's hyper vigilant, right, a person who is reliving a lot of experiences, there's no room for play, right? Try to try to play Uno, with a person who's constantly looking over their shoulder, right, who's looking at, you know, the door, trying to figure out who's coming and going. It's really hard for them to be present enough to enjoy a game of Uno, for example. Right? And so being able to work with that person, to listen to their body and start to manage some of that hypervigilance will enable them to play more, right and to be more open and receptive to experiences of playfulness, in addition to using playfulness as a healing tool, so it can go it gets both ways, like, Okay, you can't play because excuse me, you're too hyper vigilant right now. But also how can we incorporate playing as a healing property to wherever you are in your journey? And that can look like a lot of things you know, play for someone is not going to always be Oh, and go do hopscotch. Right? It could be, that made me feel really happy and smile actually. I think I need to play hopscotch soon. It can be that, but it can be painting, it can be dancing in your room listening to your favorite music, it can be having a playful conversation with someone, exchanging jokes, sharing, you know, memes with somebody, right? That's all part of playfulness, it doesn't have to be a strategic board game, but it can be. So thinking of those things that are accessible to you right now, that you feel like you can let some of your guard down a little bit and engage in with yourself or with people that you feel good with. And or in addition to that, using playfulness as part of your everyday self care practice.

Robin | And same goes for pleasure. If you're doing something that gives you joy, then you're feeling, you're feeling pleasure, right? So what about purpose? How are you using purpose to heal?

Rafaella | Yeah, so you know, purpose can be really tough, right? Because sometimes after a traumatic experience, you feel disconnected, not only from yourself, but from the world. Right? You may feel like people don't understand what you've been through what you're currently going through and why it was so impactful. And you can kind of feel a loss, right? Like what, what is the meaning of anything, right? If I have a huge distrust of the world, and if I'm not, if I've lost some internal trust as well, it can be really hard to have a sense of purpose, and so reconnecting to that can be really helpful as well. And for some trauma survivors, that is using their voice and their experience to help other survivors, right to create this space where people can come together and know that nothing is, you know, there's nothing wrong with them, that they're not the problem that they can heal, that there is a there is a way in a route to healing can be really powerful. And for other people, you know, finding that purpose can be just getting back to discipline and motivation around the things that they once liked. Because if anybody works with trauma, or if you have experienced trauma, or even depression as well, you may it may be familiar to when you're here feeling this interested in the things that used to bring you a lot of joy and happiness and peace and just having this responsive like, black, I'm not really interested in that anymore. Right? And so figuring out what it is that you want to get to, you may not want to you may use to have run, what was it called, like, 5K's or something I don't know. And now you're like, Well, I'm not into that anymore. But what is what else is there for you, then you can find that purpose in? So it's not like this big goal, like, Oh, what is my life's purpose? Why am I here? Right? But it's just finding that purpose in your everyday moment. And it may be different from day to day, the way that you decide to, to practice that or to explore that. But being committed to that as a practice.

Robin | When when I was going through your guide, and you know, we're following you on Instagram and learning from you what I thought up when it came to play, pleasure. And these things to work through trauma was an experience that I was going through recently, our baby was in the hospital for four months, and he was very sick. And I would get PTSD every time I was driving up to the hospital because I'm like, Oh my gosh, here we go. It's another day, right? Just like it just was this like response in my body and my mind just, oh no, not again, not another day. And it was very traumatic for all of us. And I kept saying to my husband as well as the people around me like, I need to find joy. Like the only way I can get through this is to bring light into my life and joy. I need to play I need to laugh because I just knew that innately that was how I could get through it. So I think that's what you're saying. Right?

Rafaella | Yeah and also like so we got into, you know, more talk of like our nervous system, right? Thinking about what is required of the nervous system. To be able to play, right? To have that joy. That is the energy that we want other people to feed off of. Right? That is the energy that we want around what we're talking about, oh, nervous systems can feed off of and read other nervous systems, right? And so if we go in with one, that is full of that sorrow, that aches of anxiety, versus Oh, wow, I just had this really joyful, playful moment. And now I can go into this space or experience. Someone else can feel that. Right. And that can help them in their healing as well.

Robin | Yes. Beautiful. Wow. Well, Rafaella, we, we did purchase your guide to sexual self care. And I recommend, for those of you that are listening, that are interested, this was it's really well done. It's super comprehensive. I really liked it at the very beginning, there's a quiz you go through, right to look at where you're at with your level of sexual self care.

Rafaella | You know, we love our pre, post assessment.

Robin | Yes! A pre and a post. I thought it was, it's just really well done Rafaella and I recommend everybody go to your website. It's healing exchange, but it's healingxchg.com. And follow your work and where else can people, before we go, where else can people follow you and continue to learn and grow with you?

Rafaella | So healingxchg the same way that you just spelled it all across social media. Also, rafaellafiallo.com If you follow me on social media, all those tags are there. So it's a long name, but it's easy to find because I'm the only one and that's where you can keep up with me everywhere. And what I got going on.

Robin | Okay, well, that's wonderful. Well, we look forward to answering or, for you to answer our community questions in the IG live. And we'll continue following you and sharing your sharing your messages. So thank you so much, Rafaella.

Rafaella | Thank you. It's been a pleasure. Thank you so much.

Robin | Please visit realloveready.com to become a member of our community. Submit your relationship questions for our podcast experts. At reallovereadypodcast@gmail.com We read everything you send. Be sure to rate and review this podcast. Your feedback helps us get you the relationship advice and guidance you need. The Real Love Ready Podcast is recorded and edited by Maia Anstey. Transcriptions by otter.ai and edited by Maia Anstey. We at Real Love Ready, acknowledge and express gratitude for the Coast Salish people, the stewards of the land on which we work and play, and encourage everyone listening to take a moment to acknowledge and express gratitude for those that have stewarded and continue to steward the land that you live on as well.

Transcription by https://otter.ai & edited by Maia Anstey