Let’s Talk Love Podcast Season 3 Episode #8 with Dr. Viviana Coles | Transcript

22.03.09

This transcript is from the Let’s Talk Love Podcast, available in our Podcast Feed.

Robin Ducharme | Today I'm talking to relationship expert and sex therapist Dr. Viviana Coles. Many of you will recognize her from the hit reality TV show, Married at First Sight. Dr. Viviana works with couples and individuals who are experiencing emotional and physical intimacy issues. I was excited to dive into her book, the four intimacy styles, which teaches the key to lasting physical intimacy. We talk about how important it is to sustain sexual and emotional intimacy in long term partnerships, how to overcome all too common intimacy ruts and challenges. And how by learning yours and your partner's intimacy style you can transform your sex life. I loved our conversation. And I hope you do too.

Welcome to Let's Talk Love the podcast that brings you real talk, fresh ideas, and expert insights every week. Our guests are the most trusted voices in love and relationships and they're here for you with tools, information, and friendly advice to help you expand the ways you love, relate and communicate. We tackle the big questions not shying away from the complex, the messy, the awkward, and the joyful parts of relationships. I'm your host, Robin Ducharme. Now, let's talk love...

Hello, everyone and welcome to this episode of Let's Talk Love. I'm so happy to be joined by Dr. Viviana Coles. Hello, Dr. Viviana!

Dr. Viviana Coles | Hello, Robin, I am ready for this.

Robin Ducharme | You know what, I love your outfit today's matching your book. I don't think you did it on purpose, you always look so beautiful.

Dr. Viviana Coles | Oh Totally. On brand. I have always been drawn towards red and black. And so when my marketing person ages ago over like nearly two decades ago was like, Hey, let's do your logo, I was like, absolutely. And then of course, you just it's a lot about, it's systems, right? You just want to be able to see something, buy it, and then know. Definitely intentional. I'm very intentional with my outfits.

Robin Ducharme | You know, what's interesting is that I think today I'm wearing Real Love Ready colors. I never really thought about that. But I am. We've got coral and cream and blue. It's like and I did not do that on purpose. But I see it now.

Dr. Viviana Coles | It's all in here. You're just brilliant.

Robin Ducharme | Well, I'm just so happy to have you. And today we're gonna talk about I mean, it's definitely one of my favorite topics. And I know our community, like I'm excited for the IG too just to talk about sex and intimacy. Because it's really important stuff.

Dr. Viviana Coles | It is, it's really important. And still, so many people have trouble just kind of entering that conversation and initiating the conversation surrounding sex. And I think that communities like yours, communities like mine. We know how to do it in a way where everybody's welcome.

Robin | Yes! Oh, that's for sure. So this week, I have been reading your book, The 4 Intimacy Styles: The Key to Lasting Physical Intimacy​​. And Dr. Viviana, I want to say that this is a fantastic book. I loved it.

Dr. Viviana | Thank you!

Robin | And, you know, when I wanted to, I learned so much. And I was just like nodding my head and highlighting so many pages and so many things you were saying going this is information that we all need. So one thing I wanted to start off with is just a quote that you wrote, "Relationships are some of the most valuable and precious investments. And learning healthy sexual intimacy is one of the greatest ways we can protect that investment." And I really appreciated this analogy of talking about our relationships as an investment because of course they are and but really what we're talking about is this sexual intimacy and protecting that investment in your relationship, in your partnership, your committed partnership.

Dr. Viviana | I know I think, you know, for so long, I was trying to find a way to help people understand that you know, just like insurance is important to have medical, dental if you can, your home insurance, auto insurance. While there isn't really a way to buy marital insurance or relationship insurance. I tried to make this as close of an analogy as possible because for so many people they would buy it. If there was such a thing as relationship insurance they would buy it well, you know, I I'm not going to be so bold as to say like this is it but this is one way for you to start really understanding that the more you invest into your relationship, the more your entire life is going to go the way that you hope it does and all of that it just permeates into every piece of our lives.

Robin | It so does. So something you talk about, and you know, you've got 20 years plus experience in sex and relationship therapy and coaching and, and counseling, you talk about the uncertainty of relationships, and how fragile they are. Right? And this is why we need insurance for, you know, we all signed up, hopefully, if you're getting if you're married, you're signing up for, you know, a very long, lifelong partnership, it doesn't always end that way. But as you say, this may seem obvious, but we don't act like our relationships are fragile. It's like we

Dr. Viviana | We don't I think we're all guilty of taking it for granted. We think once we have both created this verbal agreement, that everything else will of course, be in line and in keeping with that agreement. Well, if life were only so simple, right?

Robin | Yes.

Dr. Viviana | If we could only say this is what we want, Oh, you want that too? You're saying you want the same things? I wonder if that means you know, sarcastically that we're going to get them. But that's where the work comes in. That's where the constant communication, both verbal and nonverbal, both emotional and physical, comes into play is to continue to have that agreement be something that you're checking in on. And one of the ways that I think you can do that is through physical intimacy.

Robin | Yes. So you talk about an NRE, a new relationship energy, and which is, I really love this, I started laughing. And I was talking to my girlfriend Kirsten, who works with me as well about this, because it's like, this is really you talk about how when we first meet somebody, it's like, you're auditioning in a way for this part, this role that you want to play in that person's life and vice versa. Right, you're doing your very best you're dressing, you're dressing up, you are acting, you're on your very best behavior, obviously. Sometimes, most of the time.

Dr. Viviana | Sometimes yeah. For a lot of us, we are.

Robin | And you're just spending so much of your, your focus, time and energy and thoughts is like it's like you're like all centered around this person. Right. And, unfortunately, once we have secured that attachment, that committed relationship that we are looking for with that person, we stop trying to be worthy of it, you say.

Dr. Viviana | We do. And I think it's because we almost feel like I've got it. And now the keeping, it kind of falls to the wayside. Again, it goes back to this unspoken agreement. And sometimes it is a spoken agreement that we both decided and shared that we want to have, what our end goal is, and then we completely rely on each other to make sure that that happens. But it isn't often something that people check in on. You know, often people are talking about vow renewals as like a celebration. And then you get people who say, I wonder if we should get to a place where we have to renew our marriage licenses? And if not, yeah, that's kind of been something that goes around the internet every once in a while, is this idea of renewing your marriage license or deciding No, we're not going to. But I think that we choose to renew our vows or choose to renew our agreement in a relationship, in a marriage, in a commitment every single day. And one of the ways that you can do that, of course, is through connecting emotionally. But the connecting physically, we kind of take for granted We kind of assumed like, oh, there's always tomorrow. And look, I'm guilty of it. We have two kids. Absolutely. This is not about perfection. This is about humanity. And so it kind of ebbs and flows. And it's a roller coaster at times. And we're all guilty of it at some point. But if you're conscious of it, if your partner's conscious of it, if you're talking about it, communicating all of that good stuff, then at least you know, it's not falling aside and going away, which is then started the demise of any relationship that's romantic.

Robin | And I really, I really, the whole beginning of your book, and a lot of the book before we get into the styles is about the importance of sex in your relationship. And one, I've got so many great quotes from yours, it was just so full of them. But you say you've heard about the top three marriage killers, money, sex and kids. It might surprise you to learn that in my experience, so in your experience working with couples, there's only one true assassin, sex. And this is what you're seeing couples for in your in your practice, right Viviana?

Dr. Viviana | All the time. Yes. And fortunately, I've been able to continue to have a thriving practice based out of Houston, but I see couples from all over the world, thankfully, for coaching, I'm licensed in New York State, Texas, and California. So I see clients there as well. But, you know, through my work with them, what I find is, people expect there to be money problems. And those are oftentimes, more often than not outside of your control, there are external forces, the kids, also external beings that come in. And we always can see it as like, well, this is a tough time, this is a stage in their development. This is a stage in the growth of our family. And there's light at the end of the tunnel. But when it comes to sex, what I'm noticing, and what I've seen in my clients is that you may have a time a period of disconnect. But it's not like, well, once the kids are older, your relationship won't be able to survive that. You can't wait. You can't wait two months, two years, two, it is actively eroding at the fabric of your relationship. If you are allowing this to be time period. Yeah. Oh, well, now we're going into the period of having toddlers, your relationship cannot withstand that.

Robin | Right? No, you're no I, it's, it's so simple. That doesn't mean it's easy. However, it's mind blowing. It's just like, the fact that this is so common, that people are just not having sex, right?

Dr. Viviana | So common.

Robin | Oh, when when when this happens, then it's almost like this, this idea that, when this happens to me, I'll be happy. It's like, No, we were learning in our culture. And that you create, you have to actually be in yourself and be happy and content in order to create more in your life. It's not like this when this happens, right? So you ask you ask a lot of your clients this question around why sex is so important.

Dr. Viviana | I do.

Robin | And what is your answer?

Dr. Viviana | And that's really where the... Yeah, so why it's so important. It's something that comes up often in my practice, and what I would hope most certified sex therapist practice, because the "why" will help you get to your "how". Just like with any sort of business practice, any sort of entrepreneurial endeavor, your why, you having this podcast and your community that means so much to you, you probably often think about why this is so important. Because it is difficult. It's a lot of work to do what you're doing. And I think for a lot of us, the getting past the oh my gosh, why am I doing this, the why has to be so important for me, I think a lot of the why comes from a place of I tell people, you cannot do this, you cannot create intimacy, both emotional and physical intimacy, one of one in the same with just anyone, right? When you've chosen a primary partner, they are the only outlet. If you're in a monogamous relationship, you're, they're the only outlet for this, you are their only outlet, you are their partner in this, no one else can satisfy this in that same way. And so if you're not doing it, then literally it's absent. Yes. And so it's not like they can get it anywhere else. We we can change in front of you know, our doctors will see us naked, our kids will get kisses and snuggles we will kiss our dogs, we will say I love you.

Robin | And you can share like intimate details about things, your thoughts, your feelings, with your best friends or your therapist. Right.

Dr. Viviana | But this is the only thing that within the construct of monogamy, which is still what we're all typically working under. And the majority of people are still working on to this construct of monogamy forever. So if you're not addressing it, it is literally absent and it is a gaping hole and things will fill that hole. That sounds bad. But you know what I mean. [laughs]

Robin | Yes. I think this goes back to like the word that I read and resonated with me is like the sacredness of your intimate partnership. And that's what you have. If you are monogamous like you said, this is the one and like so it comes down to your fantasies that you share with only this one person in your life. And of course the physical act of physical intimacy and the emotional part of yourself that only you give that to that one person. So that are such that there's that beautiful sacredness that you want to nurture.

Dr. Viviana | There's the sacredness, but there is also a feeling of pressure and obligation and responsibility that comes from that and depending on how much of each of those you're experiencing, it can either become something that is very positive in your life, or it can be something that is very draining and negative in your life.

Robin | So you say, without healthy physical intimacy, relationship satisfaction simply cannot be maintained. And I was like, Oh, that's a big one right to say like, if a partner, please expand on that. What do you think?

Dr. Viviana | Yeah. So I think the reason that it's important for people to read that and then reread it is because we don't want to believe that that's the case, we don't ever want to dilute our relationships down to, we have a sexual connection, or we don't, and if we don't, when we're not together, but that's not practical. Having seen clients for nearly 20 years. Now. I'm noticing that if your sexual connection is out of whack, you cannot paint over it. You can cover it with a piece of furniture, it is a foundational crack that will ultimately start to really impact the other parts of your life. So a lot of people don't like to think about that, well, I am more than my sex drive. And I am more than my, you know, I feel so objectified when people talk about or when my partner talks about how you know, sex is so important to them. And that if we don't figure this out, they're gonna leave me. That sounds like if we don't have sex, you'd mean nothing to me. But what was really happening? And if you really get into it, like we do in my office, and in my sessions, what they're saying is, if we don't have that connection, what does it say about us? And who else is going to fill this need for both of us? We are, we are humans, we have bodies, we have brains, we have spirits that need sexuality in order to experience pleasure, as adults and pleasure as beings. And if we can't do that together, and if I can't be a part of that, then I'm missing out on true intimate connection.

Robin | Yes. Beautiful.

Dr. Viviana | But that doesn't mean that there's one way for that to look.

Robin | No, we're gonna get into that.

Dr. Viviana | When we talk about sex. It's not just intercourse. It's not just penis entering something. Or, you know, some sort of penetrative act. There's so many different ways. And for so many differently-abled people to be able to experience sexual pleasure, even if it's just through sensuality, but a lot of people don't do that.

Robin | That's right.

Dr. Viviana | And they don't dive into that once they have intercourse of some sort of penetrative act of some sort, they tend to think, well, everything else is just foreplay.

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Robin | So I know there's so many people that are listening that can relate when they're parents, right? And parenting is can be the sex killer, for sure. And so you say our parenting culture demands that even the intimacy we have with our partners be diverted to our children. Also true, our partners deserve some of this romantic and intimate energy. Instead, they often get the leftovers. Oh my gosh, I thought about this because I mean, I've definitely experienced that. I've got three kids, I've gone, I've gone through it like of course. But I really liked your example, in the book, Viviana about James and Acacia and this is because this one this one is just like we can all relate to this, right? It's almost like there's social norms at play as well. So James is working, he's the breadwinner for the home. Acacia's home and she is taking care of the kids. She's taking care of the house. She's the manager of their lives pretty much.

Dr. Viviana | Everything. Yes. She's taking care of everything.

Robin | He wants to have sex. And at the end of the day, she's like, I'm not into it. No, I'm exhausted. I'm tired. Like, the dishes are piling up. I'm making all the meals like what do you expect, and this is such a common story that so many of us have lived through. And so but I really

Dr. Viviana | This is the every couple.

Robin | Yeah, but I really liked, like, you know, the strategies involved, right. So James is like, Okay, well, I could help you. Like what do you need? Honey, you're saying no, you're really trying to get the day. How can I pick up some slack? So he's doing dishes, he's helping with the laundry. He's doing everything he can to help unburden his wife. And it's still not working.

Dr. Viviana | Yes.

Robin | So please, Dr. Coles, tell us!

Dr. Viviana | It's not working because yeah,

Robin | How do you get around this?

Dr. Viviana | So first of all, for all of you who have either just entered parenthood, or are planning on entering parenthood, or who have been parents forever, you're going to experience some degree of what James and Acacia, this case study in my book, go through. And so knowing that, knowing that prioritizing sexuality, at any phase of your commitment to each other, needs to be somewhere in the top five, but for sure, in the top 10 of things that you're working on every single day. Even if it's just to say, Gosh, I really wish that I had the desire to have sex right now but I'm so exhausted, or I can't get my head off of the fact that we have a huge party coming up this weekend and my head is consumed by it, I wish that we could just take a respite and that I could actually enjoy talking about wanting it. You know, I tell people I want you to want to have sex. Well, guess what so does your partner, even if y'all aren't having it, being able to tell them, sweetheart, I would, I would if I could right now, but I feel like I could fall asleep right now, on the couch, I'm falling asleep, or, you know, the kids just took it out of me today. But my plan is and then fill in your plan with tomorrow, let's get the kids into bed, you know, 20 minutes earlier, let's start the bedtime routine, I'm not going to take my sleepy time pill or whatever it is that you need to do until later, I'm going to make sure that if anything pops up, I'll let you know so you can help me tackle it during the day, make sure not to eat the wrong things. And then you start to really say I'm going to have a date with myself. And then that turns into something where you turn it into a date with your partner. Again, easier said than done because most people what do they want to do when they get a break. They want to veg out, they want to get onto social, they want to escape, right? Escape reality. Or sleep which are all very important. So it's just it's the reality is that that's part of the work. If you're, just like we don't assume our kids are going to, you know, at a certain age, feed themselves, shower themselves, go to bed, we we are a part of that bedtime routine, we need to also extend some of that energy, sometimes during the week to our partnerships.

Robin | Yes. So there's often one person that wants sex and one that doesn't. And so there's different roles, right? The initiator versus the decider. I actually, I really liked that. Just the way that you framed it. I understand the initiator. But I really didn't think that the person like you know, there's a person, I really want this honey, and then the person is like, they are the decider. Yeah.

Dr. Viviana | They get to decide. And often that's the person with lower desire who is getting to decide so they're actually in control. And if it's always one person versus the other, that's where I see that resentment come in. If you're always the person, and I will say maybe a lot of your audience is women, they have they identify as women, I would say a lot of women, especially in my practice have confided in me that they don't even, they don't practice initiating, they've never really had to. And the assumption is I think societally that women are obviously wanted by their partners that it is, you know, they never have to question it, their partner would always choose to have sex with them. And so, most of the time, women just literally lay back and are waiting for their partner to initiate and it's an assumption that's made. Well, think about what it would feel like if your partner never initiated. If you were the only one to bring it up, and how that might start to give you some insecurities about their feelings for you. And they could swear up and down. Oh, sweetheart, no, I'm just, you know, like, I just don't like initiating. You know, it's what if you reject me and this and that, you'd say, get over it. I need you to show me that you want me. I can't do this on my own it um, it makes me feel like I'm doing something to you. And I hear that all the time. Perfectly sweet, kind connected partners will feel like they are doing something to their partner because they're the only ones that ever initiate and a lot of women say well since I was an adolescent, I have never had to. And I feel like that's, that's the guys, you know, in a heterosexual relationship. That's the guys, you know, they're supposed to pursue us. And it's, you know, it's just part of the way that things work. And I don't, you know, that's very masculine, quote, unquote, to go after. This isn't a chase, y'all are, y'all are supposed to be investing in a relationship forever. This isn't like your, oh, let's woo each other. No, you're supposed to have already done that. And now it's about showing your partner that you are willing to be more egalitarian when it comes to this, or else it can feel very one-sided. And that's not sexy.

Robin | No. It's definitely not. So you talk about two rules that need to be in place for sex. But first you say it can be like a cruel joke. But in my practice, it's become clear that in most relationships, there's one partner who needs to feel emotionally intimate, in order to have physical intimacy. And the other partner needs physical intimacy in order to have an emotional connection. So it's like this, it is kind of a cruel joke. It's like, in order for me to feel connected to you, like, let's just say that you're the person that just needs sex in order to feel connected, and the other person needs emotional intimacy, in order to have sex, it's like you're at odds.

Dr. Viviana | It can feel like you're at odds. But in actuality, you can look at that as a gift that each of you has an inclination, a tendency that's natural, that fulfills both needs for intimacy in your relationship. So it's almost like strengths. It's these strengths that we have.

Robin | It's like a cycle the more you're doing it.

Dr. Viviana | But it doesn't always feel that way, like you said,

Robin | You're giving to each other what you need. I like that.

Dr. Viviana | And most people do feel like what you said, Robin, which is that it feels like it's at odds. It's the couples that don't feel like it's at odds that feel like it's an actual gift. Oh, I have this natural tendency. It's something that we need to do. And their partner who is I have this natural tendency, that's something that we need to do. Those are the ones that tend to sail on through these road bumps.

Robin | So you say, because sex is shared, two rules need to be in place. And they seem to be contradictory as well. Consent and compromise. I mean, consent is a non negotiable, you both have to be okay, and be willing partners in these sexual acts. Right. But please tell us about the rule of compromise.

Dr. Viviana | Absolutely you must, you must have that.

Robin | But what about compromise? You say it's also necessary.

Dr. Viviana | So compromise. And this, yeah, it is necessary. Because, again, when you have to see your sex life as being one of the facets of your entire life, and in your daily life, and in your, even in your own identity, sexuality is a piece of that it is not everything. So the chances of that happening, where your partner and you are equally consenting, equally wanting, equally ready for any sort of sexuality or experience or sensuality, that is very unlikely. Even for my couples who practice diligent scheduling, there's still this sense of when it happens, how it happens, what you're doing, that is a negotiation. So the compromise comes in, when it's a negotiation of the how, the when, the where, not the what, right? Because most people are already saying, Okay, we're going to engage in some sort of sexual experience. But somebody is going to be compromising. The fact that, Oh, you're basically bringing this to me, I have to then decide if I want to accept it, and when and where and how. And that's, that's what that is happening. Every time somebody initiates sexuality, some sort of sexual experience. It's, it's in that moment, you have to decide, is this what I want to be doing right now? Or do I want to continue eating my chips on the couch or having this conversation with my team? You know, whatever it is, and so it is a compromise.

Robin | Okay.

Dr. Viviana | Equally.

Robin | Yeah. And so people are I know, couples are asking you, and it's one of our questions for the IG. Next is about frequency. So...

Dr. Viviana | It's one of the most common questions that I get.

Robin | Yeah. So there's a clinical definition of what a sexless marriage is, which I learned. Less than 10 times per year. I was like, I didn't know that people are going to, I thought that was Yeah, okay. That's the clinical definition. So what do you recommend as far as frequency to maintain, like to nurture the sexual part of a relationship?

Dr. Viviana | So while I am very sex positive, I'm also very realistic and what I'm finding is that couples can be very fulfilled at three times a day. And others can be very fulfilled at three times a week or a month. And so I'm not ever going to tell somebody what's right for their relationship. But in general, what I find is that if you're experiencing two sexual experiences per week, now, those do not have to all be revolving around penetrative sex, then chances are, you're going to be able to keep up with feeling like sensuality is underlying your relationship. It's in the air. I also think that it's important for people to realize that, you know, if you're partnered up with a man, that the American Medical Association does promote prostate health by asking them to ejaculate three to four times. Now that does not mean partnered. That does not mean partnered. So if you are saying because here's the other thing, and this is kind of getting into another, another topic, but I get a lot of women in heterosexual relationships who are like, I don't like that my partner masturbates. Okay, well, we can talk more about that, of course. But if not just know, if the American Medical Association is saying three to four ejaculations a week, are you able to, in a very healthy way, keep up with that? Not a lot of very busy moms and women are saying, Sign me up. And so it's got to be one or the other. And I think that two partnered experiences, and hopefully one of them will be more sensual and sexual, can keep that spark alive without being too overwhelming.

Robin | Yeah. And like you said it doesn't have to be penetrative sex, every time, it could be like you call it sexual play. So it could be just like a very sensual massage, or, you know, like, even just

Dr. Viviana | Or a sexy shower together or using a toy, or even just, you know, exploring with your hands and your mouth. I mean, there's so many things that you can do to bring pleasure, not just to yourself, but to your partner. And I feel like if if y'all can each be a part of that together, and you can associate pleasure to your partner that counts. Check that box off.

Robin | Yes! Pleasure, people. Pleasure. Let's have more pleasure.

Dr. Viviana | And if you're not having pleasurable sexual experiences, come see a Certified Sex Therapist.

Robin | Yes, okay. That's the next question. So I know you're, you know, just even that some people say like, I'm just not feeling it. I'm not getting pleasure out of this. There is no sexual compatibility. We're sexually incompatible. And you're like, that's,

Dr. Viviana | And what do I say to that? It's a myth. And I know I get people who send me dm's.

Robin | I know, "we don't believe you."

Dr. Viviana | "Me and my ex view are obviously incompatible when it comes to this." Well, that's why experiencing the joy and the fulfillment that comes from rounding out your intimacy style, by incorporating all four of the intimacy styles in each or nearly all sexual experiences with your partner. And hopefully, in equal parts, I like to aim for 25%. Imagine a circle and it's like a pie. And, you know, you want to do that. If you can incorporate all four of the intimacy styles as often as possible to every sexual experience, you will be compatible, because you and your partner are going to get your needs met. And and of course, we can talk about what these four are.

Robin | Yes, please.

Dr. Viviana | But that's why I say sexual incompatibility doesn't, it's when you are very, very short sighted in the way that you behave or see what sex counts as and it only looks one way well surely your partner is not going to, they're not experiencing your sensations in your body. And so it is very important. The other piece of it is that it's not like the five love languages where you can learn how to speak someone's love language, you cannot say, Well, I am going to become a bonding style, that it's innate. It's something that comes from our childhood. It comes from our experiences as adults, as adolescents. With every sexual experience. We are learning what works for us, and we don't want to unlearn that just because we have a new partner that this doesn't fit for. So that's when I say again, it's not it is pretty simple. If you can, just like with the five love languages, I love I tell people speaking any one of the Love Languages will get you on the dartboard. But your primary is going to get you the bullseye. And that's where you get the extra points. So I think with this if you can speak, so to say, with your bodies and with your, with your hearts, if you can incorporate all four intimacy styles into every sexual experience, you don't have to worry about what's going to happen 10 years down the road, like so many people end up, they start off feeling very comfortable. And typically not all but pretty good in the bedroom. And then very quickly, or slowly, but surely, it degrades into really next to nothing.

Robin | So you have your intimacy quiz. I took the intimacy quiz, and everybody has to take it, I would recommend everybody take the intimacy quiz.

Dr. Viviana | Yeah, go to 4imtimacystyles.com.

Robin | And take the quiz. So let's go through the four intimacy styles that you've determined. And it is it is an understanding that, like you said, it's innate, we all have our, the one intimacy style that we are more prone to correct. We are more...

Dr. Viviana | So that can happen, I think what people are finding is that they have one that tends to be more primary, and then they have to actively incorporate the other three to round it out. And that's where the work comes in. That's where the changes come in. But again, if you're wanting to be with someone forever, that work is an investment. Being able to be well rounded. And for all of the singles out there, who are not partnered up with someone, being well rounded and rounding out your intimacy style. And knowing what that looks like, you're already ahead of the game, you're going to be an amazing partner, when it comes to physical intimacy because you'll already know how to do that without the growing pain.

Robin | So let's go through the four basic styles. There's for the bonding style.

Dr. Viviana | Yes,

Robin | Yep. Do you want to go through them?

Dr. Viviana | Yeah, let's do it. So there's the bonding style, there's release, there's giving and responsive. And I basically came up with these after seeing the last 15 years of, I went through notes, because I keep really good notes as a therapist. And I would always ask people, why is sex important to you? What do you get out of it? When it's going well how do you feel? What is it that really attracts you to doing it again, and again, and again. And that's where these four styles emerged. The bonding is someone who says, when I experienced sex and sexual pleasure with a partner, I feel emotionally connected to them, I feel like I can open up to them, I feel like the vulnerability that we just have physically then segues into the emotional. And if that if there was a stopping point there, or a brick wall or a door there, I don't feel like I can open up as much emotionally, because we haven't been vulnerable.

Robin | And boy, that is a huge problem for somebody that's a bonding style. And if they are not able to if they're if their partner is not willing to have sex or just they're not into it over and over and over. Like you said, it really that is such a huge problem in the relationship.

Dr. Viviana | It's a huge problem. And unfortunately, their partners see it as Oh, you only want to talk to me, and you only want to share with me, after we've had sex, it almost feels transactional. Well, it's in the same way that for maybe that partner, they feel like, I'm only going to have sex with you, if we've had a nice day together. If we haven't yelled at each other in the past 24 hours, if you know, you treated my mother well, or even like there's all of this that goes into the emotional and we don't tend to say, no, that's not right. It doesn't matter if you're upset or not with your partner, you should have sex. Like that's not what we do when people say that. But we do say, Well, you shouldn't want sex or you shouldn't feel closer to me only after having intercourse. And that's why it's never good enough, in my opinion, to just focus on your own typical or tendency when it comes to intimacy stuff, you do have to have all four, or else you get into this. Well, what's right and what's wrong? It's not what's right and what's wrong. It's what's healthiest for your relationship.

Robin | Ok so that's the bonding.

Dr. Viviana | That's the bonding now release. Those are the people who feel this intense, and to what degree is different for everyone, but this feeling of well being through sexual pleasure. And when they can associate it with their partner. It's like oh my gosh, high five. You just like, you just gave me a whole body hug that feels, it's just so comforting. It's so amazing. And they feel this sense of release and relief that they can then associate with their partner. So that's awesome. And then we have giving. So giving partners tend to be the people who are oftentimes people pleasers, not necessarily always outside of the bedroom. But in the bedroom, what they say is, I could do this all day, I am here for you. The fact that you're being vulnerable with me and allowing me to give you pleasure, gives me vicarious pleasure, it gives me meaning, it gives me a sense of purpose. And it makes me feel like I'm connected with you, because you've allowed this to happen. And then we have responsive. So the responsives tend to get a bad rep because what it looks like is that they're not very interested in sex. What it is, is that they're not their thoughts are not driven by sex, they tend to, they tend to only be responsive and receptive to sexuality when their partners bring it up as an option. And that's when they say, okay, I will engage in that they're the ones that tend to say, I really enjoyed doing that, we should do that more often. And then they leave the bedroom. And it's as if their brains have reset and they forget how amazing it was.

Robin | Yeah. On their merry way.

Dr. Viviana | And they're on their way. It's again, it's not, it's not the same as somebody who is having issues with wanting sex ever, or enjoying the pleasures seeking that out. They just don't get that. This is the people who, when they're in the moment, with their partner, they enjoy it, they can even be those that kind of person that says, I want to do this more often. They just don't, because their urges are not driving them to do that. And so, as you can imagine, if you're with somebody who's responsive, they're not going to be the kind to initiate very often. And because for them, it's not really on the brain. And what I what I have found is iif you take the quiz, 4intimacystyles.com it's free, go check it out, you'll get the percentage of each the closest to 25% of each that you get, the better. So in the book, all over my social media, I give tips on how to round out your intimacy style. And if you can do that, you're likely going to be in a much better place. I truly believe it's the key to lasting physical intimacy for your long run and for the long term relationship.

Robin | Well, I will, we are going to be posting and talking about your book and making sure that people know the website and go take the quiz. And I really, I really do hope everybody reads your book for intimacy styles. I learned so much and I so enjoyed our conversation. And one of the quotes we posted of yours yesterday, which I think is just so poignant to our conversation, is how important intimacy really is to a long term partnership. And you say "be the guardian of your intimate life. Be proactive and protective of your intimacy with your partner." So, thank you Dr. Viviana for the work you're doing. It's very important work.

Dr. Viviana | Oh, I love it. I love what I do. I think that every single day.

Robin | I can tell you do. You're so good at it. Thank you so much for being with us.

Dr. Viviana | Thank you so much, Robin.

Robin | Please visit realloveready.com to become a member of our community. Submit your relationship questions for our podcast experts. At reallovereadypodcast@gmail.com We read everything you send. Be sure to rate and review this podcast. Your feedback helps us get you the relationship advice and guidance you need. The Real Love Ready Podcast is recorded and edited by Maia Anstey. Transcriptions by otter.ai and edited by Maia Anstey. We at Real Love Ready, acknowledge and express gratitude for the Coast Salish people, the stewards of the land on which we work and play, and encourage everyone listening to take a moment to acknowledge and express gratitude for those that have stewarded and continue to steward the land that you live on as well.

Transcription by https://otter.ai & edited by Maia Anstey