Preamble | Welcome to our very first episode of the Let's Talk Love Podcast. Today I had the pleasure of speaking with Bela Gandhi—expert dating coach, and founder, of The Smart Dating Academy in Chicago. For those of you looking for solid, effective, dating advice Bela can help. We talk about the importance of changing your dating checklist from what you want versus what will make you the happiest, we discussed what red flags to watch out for, how pacing plays a crucial role in dating, and how to screen people in, rather than screening people out when looking for love. Every time I talk to Bela I learn so much. I hope our fun conversation gives you more tools for dating smarter, and eventually meeting the right partner for you. Enjoy.

Introduction | Welcome to the Let's Talk Love podcast, where we flip the script on outdated narratives and cliches about love and relationships. I'm your host, Robin Ducharme, founder of Real Love Ready. This podcast is for anyone who wants to be better at love, regardless or relationship status. We'll talk about the intimate connections in our lives, and the challenges and complexities inherent in those partnerships. Through our no-holds-barred interviews with global experts we'll gain insight about ourselves and learn new skills to improve our relationships. Because when we learn to love better, we make the world a better place. Are you ready for open and honest conversations about love? Let's get started.

Robin Ducharme | And welcome to our Let's Talk Love podcast! I am so very excited. My name is Robin Ducharme, and I'm the founder of Real Love ready and your host for today.

And, this is a very important very special time because this is our first recording our first podcast episode ever, with Real Love Ready. And our first guest is Bela Gandhi. And we are so incredibly excited to be joined by this beautiful, incredible, wise woman. Bela is a self-proclaimed psychotic optimist, and she's a successful dating coach and the fairy godmother of dating. It's true.

Bela as a wealth of practical, dating, effective advice. Her company Smart Dating Academy has helped thousands of people find loving relationships—with I was amazed to hear this—zero divorces.

So you know that is that's amazing Bela, really. And I just want to first of all, just thank you so so very, very much for sharing this hour and being our first guest on Let's Talk Love.

Bela Gandhi | I am so honored to have that incredibly esteemed position of being your first guest and couldn't be more delighted or excited for this podcast. You're bringing so much love into the world and really helping people to get real love ready. I love your name. So I'm in it. Let's make this we're going to give you guys more than you bargained for in this hour. So put your seatbelts on because it's gonna be a ride.

Robin | Absolutely, and you know, Bela, I just have to share this story about you and I and our connection.

So I first learned about you through our fellow friend and my mentor, Rachel Greenwald, and Rachel is this amazing celebrity matchmaker that is living and working out of Denver, Colorado. And I flew to Denver in 2012, in October, for her week-long matchmaker boot camp, because at the time, I had my matchmaking business, and I was date-coaching. And I really just wanted to learn from the best of the best. And all my research pointed me towards Rachel. So I spent the week there, and she had told me—like I think it was like day three—and she said "You have to connect with this woman in Chicago. Her name is Bela Gandhi. She has this company 'Smart Dating Academy'." And I think I did reach out to you back in 2012 and said "Hi Bela," like, "Nice to connect". And you were so kind and generous. She said, "Anytime let's connect." We never did get on the phone, but this is how the universe works in miraculous ways. Here we are, like 11 years later—10 years? 10 yes, 11 years later. And you know, in different, I mean, I'm in a different place with Real Love Ready, but it's the same universe of love helping people find love. And anyways, I just wanted to share that because this is I just I just I just love the miracles in life too. Right?

Bela | I'm so—totally! I mean, Rachel is such a special person and has been an amazing mentor to me through all these years and I did her boot camp in 2010, actually January of 2010, I think we were her very first boot camp, and it was two days, and it was wonderful, and I've met so many fantastic people through her, inc luding you. So I'm super excited to be here. Thank you for having me.

Robin | So Bela, can you please just start on giving us an introduction to how you got into date coaching and smart dating, and starting 'Smart Dating Academy'? How did your life lead you into this, this business you've been doing for a decade,

Bela | I realized Robin when I was back in college that I had these crazy instincts on matchmaking and who should date whom. Now mind you, my own dating life was a little bit "to be desired" back in the day and I did not always make the most savory choices for young Bela.

However, after a particular heartbreak, I sat back and said, "Okay, I've been in this relationship for two years, you know, and it's one of those on again, off again on again," —and we've all been there—and every time they get a little bit more destructive, and I actually took stock, and I looked in the mirror: "I'm, like, the common denominator, and this is me." And so I went back, like any good business student, back in the day, and kind of made a spreadsheet in a journal like, "Okay, what, what, what am I doing? What's attracting me to these people? what's worked, what didn't work? What was my responsibility in this? What was his responsibility?" and I started to see that there were a lot of patterns and things that I wasn't doing well.

And then, I asked myself a better question: "Who in my life makes me really, really happy?" and I took stock of all those people, and looked at those characteristics, and through this crazy epiphanous weekend, where a heartbroken girl puts together the pieces of this, I realized: "Huh, there were some interesting people in my life that maybe I should think about dating." And so I had been friends with a guy for six years—best friends. And I suddenly started to look at him in a bit of a different light after this exercise, which I do, which by the way, forms the anchor for what we do with all of our clients at Smart Dating Academy, that you reference—We've had zero divorces using this method—and we started dating, we got engaged three years later this year, we'll be married 25 years, I started to teach all of my friends how to do this.

Now mind you, I have a business degree of in management. I kind of started working, you know, in management, consulting, mergers and acquisitions, and went to run a big manufacturing global company, but all the while I kept matchmaking. And so, when we sold the manufacturing company, in—basically, I finally left there in 2006. I started this company in 2009. Because I knew every—I think every one of us here, you know, if you're listening to this, and you're kind of one of those people, you're like, "I don't know exactly what my purpose is", you have your gifts, you just have to really be in a space to listen for them, and I think I was just lucky enough to be in the space and the time where I knew, "Okay, this is what I want to do". So I started 'Smart Dating Academy' that year.

Robin | Wow. I love that story. And you were using your own personal experience to build your business and your gifts. I love these two quotes, and I put them next to each other because these are these are things that you've said, you say "Finding the right person will determine 90% of your happiness or 90% of your misery." And I think that is absolutely true. However, "Choosing partners is something that we are never taught how to do, but we're just expected to know how."

Bela | That's right.

Robin | Right?! It's the one it's one of the most important decisions you're ever going to make, but you're not taught how to—how to make the right decision around this. Right?

Bela | 100% You just gave me goosebumps at quoting my own quote back to me, I'm like, wow, that is it is so true. And-and when people come to us, and tell me [about dating]—

You know, I just look at them, you know, and I tell them, "It's not your fault". Like there are a lot of forces working against us that break our pickers for us. We're not—we can't choose what happens in our family of origin, the messaging that we get from them, right? Whether its toxic or incorrect to say the least for so many reasons. And, and there's so many things that work against us—our own biology in our own evolution. You know, we still pick partners the way we did back in caveman days. And so, if your picker's broken, and you're listening to this, and you know you've made bad choices, you're not alone. It's not at all. We should be taught the things that we're teaching at Smart Dating Academy, we should be taught as a course in college I believe. That's my ultimate mission someday. is get them when they're young. Teach them how to do this. I have a 17 and a half year old daughter, who has her first boyfriend, and guess what, he has? No red flags. It's a good, healthy relationship. So it's like I'm watching it, not just in my own client base, but this is like a Petri dish in my own house: What happens when you talk about these things, and you teach kids the things that I'm teaching to 35 and 55 and 70 year olds, and I'm teaching them young, and you can see, it makes a difference.

Robin | There is no doubt. And you're, you're teaching your 17 year old—just first of all, you're modeling it with your husband, and you're you're teaching her or him. Did you say your daughter?

Bela | Her, her, yeah!

Robin Ducharme | Yeah, you know what healthy relationships look like? Right? That's, that's beautiful, absolutely beautiful. So I know from experience, as working as a matchmaker and dating coach, and I know you've talked about this, it's just that: the general idea around finding a partner right now, like people people maybe go to, is this list. Checklist, right? So, I love this in your TED Talk, which is what my experience was too, as well. I always asked my clients, "Okay, what are you looking for?" And if it was a woman, every one of them would say "Tall", right? And the majority of people men in this world are like, 5'10" and under. I don't know, that's kind of tall. But, then, what men would say what's on men's checklist, right? Maybe 10 years younger, at least. So, that's actually something. You people were there, they're turning to the wrong checklist.

Bela | Yeah, we're wired, like I was saying a couple minutes ago. You know, the deck, the deck is kind of stacked against us in what we're looking for love today. It favors what we needed back in the day, you know, we, women needed the big burly caveman, like, you know, if you saw in my TED talk, and it's called "The Big Secret to Finding Lasting Love”, and I just gave the TED Talk in October of 2021. But I talk about how women say 'tall' is the number one thing on their dream list and men say 'fit' or 'attractive' or 'younger', right? Whatever it is, it's usually 'fit' and 'attractive' and these have very deep evolutionary roots in us and we still—a lot of the things that we preference in partners are still from that sort of reptilian lizard brain and doesn't really have any correlation to what we want out of love today. Which is so different than if you asked your grandparents or your great grandparents: "What did you want out of your marriage?" Did you think they said, "I want my best friend, my soulmate, my lover, my lalalalala" and all the things we say today, they're like, "I don't know, I just needed a wife" or "I needed a husband", like you have your friends for certain things. And, and until the year 1900, I think the average human age until what till mortality was 30 years old, right? So we weren't living long for millennia. And now we're living longer. We want so much more. We want romance and friendship and fidelity out of one relationship. It's like this one person has to become everything to us, and yet we're picking like that's not the case.

Robin | Right? And so you are helping people identify like—you know, you've got your Smart Dating Academy list, right? So you say—which I think is brilliant, and this is why it works, right, it's—you're, you're identifying what's way more important. It's what people in your life like, you know, bring you the most joy, the most happiness, who you can feel your true self with—authentic self with.

Bela | Yeah!

Robin | Right? You describe elevator people in your life, right?

Bela | It's a big shift. In fact, I had a session with the client today who's got her doctorate in therapy, and we went through this exercise. And it's so mind blowing for people. And everybody's list is going to be different, but really thinking about people in your life that elevate you, right? We call them elevator people because they're the people that make you happiest, they lift you up, and they elevate you. Right? And so, and I always say, like an elevator, an elevator does come down but it keeps you grounded and it keeps you safe, right? Elevator people are, you know, usually some aspect of people that are supportive for you, they love you for you. Right? They're always there for you. They have your back and they're your cheerleaders. They think you can do anything. They show up for you right? And for so many of us, not one—not one person really comes into us when I say, Tell me about your dream person, putting one of those characteristics that I just delineated on their dream list, we're still stuck on 'tall', and how much money somebody makes and what they look like, and do they have hair? And what do they like to eat? And what do they like to do and how many stamps are in their passport? Okay, I'm not taking, I'm not saying that those things aren't important. But I'm saying, you know, whatever the number is, I've seen numbers that say, 30, 40, 50% of first marriages end in divorce. Whatever you believe about that number, it's a hell of a lot. Right? It's almost a majority. And—

Robin | —I just had this thought, Bela. It's like, if you, let's say, move to a new city, and you want to just need a new friend, right? You want a friend. [laughter] You're like, let's, let's just—"I moved with my husband and, and my family and I didn't have any friends in this brand new place". I sure as heck wouldn't be making a list going like I hoped that she or he like—probably a woman, I'd be looking for a good a good girlfriend—so "I hope she is skinny, and very successful, and she has he makes lots of money, and she this that that". I mean, you're not looking for a physical attributes and a best friend, you're looking for somebody that you can have fun with and is going to be supportive and honest, and so many things you look for in a friend. So, why wouldn't our list for best friends not align with like our partner that we want to share the rest of our life with? Right?

Bela | Exactly. I tell them, it's like when you think about those people, right? All my best friends. I mean, there are people that want their best friends to be skinny, and pretty.

Robin | Okay! [laughter].

Bela | And there are those people! You know, we all know, we all know, maybe one. But, I think when we're really looking when we're healthy, right, and we have the capacity to have healthy, secure relationships, you're right. Those aren't the things that we're prioritizing. We're prioritizing people that are truly going to be able to be anchors and rocks for us and where we can reciprocate that back to them. And, and so yeah, we don't look at relationships, I think in a way that we should be at this point, because we want so much more. And a lot of this is socio economically driven, right? When you talk about 100 years ago, you know, women didn't have the ability very easily anyway to go out and earn money and—forget about being successful or being C-suite or sitting in the boardrooms, right, just even to be able to have a job that made money. And now, women are in school at equal levels to men, right? We're closing the wage gap at this point, and I hope that that gets even further, and that ultimately, there is no wage gap. But, along with that, we still sometimes date like it's 150 years ago. So there's just this mismatch in who we are I have super successful C suite clients, women, that'll say, "Well, I really want the guy to make the first move". I'm like, "Where in your life, CEO-woman badass boss-babe, have you ever said you want someone else to take the lead? You wouldn't be sitting in the chair at work that you are, if you wouldn't have, if you would have had that perspective. So question yourself. Question why? What brain are we operating from? Right? Are we operating from Hollywood, Bollywood and the media and Harlequin and from our reptilian brains? Or are we operating for the person that we are today? Right? You are, you know, a boss lady or a boss man or whatever you are, and most likely you want a partner? Right? You want a partner."

Robin | That's absolutely right. Yep. You know, looking for somebody to save you.—

Bela | And we lose that logic. Yes. Oh, well—

Robin | —I've got a page full of quotes and Bela quotes I love. I love you, you're just a wealth of information and wisdom. This is—

Bela | —You're gonna have to send me those Bela quotes.

Robin | I will! I will!

Bela | When they just come off the cuff. I'm like, "Oh, wow, okay! Did I say that?" So I love when people are like, "That's a Bela-ism. I'm like, "tell me what the Bela-isms are! Because I don't even know!"

Robin | Yep! This is it: "If you share the same core values as the person you're dating, a lot of your less significant differences will fade away into the background. Interests and personality, though strongly visible to all, are surface-level aspects of a person. Values are the pillars that construct who a person really is. At the end of the day, as long as you align on your values, the two of you are birds of a feather in ways that matter.

Bela | True!

Robin | Right? Be clear on what your values are, and that you're sharing those with your partner.

Bela | Absolutely. And if you, you know, if you talk to my husband and you look at me, you could, to some extent be like "Wow, these two are completely different personalities and in how they enrich the world." And he's more introverted, and I'm more extroverted and, and there's so many of those external differences, but yet, at the core, we both value friendship, fiercely. Loyalty, fiercely. Family fiercely. We value each other's success and growth, fiercely. So what the Venn diagram over the things that matter are so important, and just remember you guys, if you're listening to this: Nature—like, lust and chemistry, and fireworks, that's all well and good—but that is nature's way of tricking us into relationships and attachments. So be very wary of who you're feeling that chemistry with, you have to really take stock of that. So often we correlate high chemistry with a good relationship bet. That is not always the case, you have heads or tails odds. On any gamble in life, you've got heads or tails, odds and relying sheerly on chemistry without checking what's under the values hood, you might be in for another, kind of, bag of disasters.

Robin | Wow. That is the truth. And I actually I do—I mean, I'm no longer in the date-coaching business so it's like, you know, that connection between me and my client, it doesn't exist, I'm doing something I love now, but I have to say like, that was something that I was seeing a lot. Was somebody coming in with their checklist, right? And it's like, they're the outside package and the personality, actually, it's a different person, but the same kind of thing. It's the inside that needed to change, right? The values weren't aligned. So you're gonna keep attracting that. If you're, if that's what you're looking for you're gonna keep attracting that, but you're not gonna have that deeper connection that lasting that lasting connection.

Bela | 100%

Robin | And so I've got a question. I just have a question I'm gonna ask from our community about values.

Bela | Oh, I would love that.

Robin | The question is, how can I broach the topic of personal values and politics? I know some of the apps have things like vaccination confirmation on their platforms, but not everyone discloses, or is comfortable with disclosing for many other privacy reasons. How do I bring that up early on? So I guess this person values obviously values vaccination, right? And, so that's where—what would you suggest?

Bela | I would say, if you're on an app, and it sounds like this person in your community is on the apps, if it's really important to you say it, right? "I am vaccinated and boosted and would prefer that you are as well smiley face." Right? It doesn't need to be judgmental, say it kindly say it openly put it out there. And if you are, you know, ardently—if you you know, there are people, you know, politics has become polarized. I don't think that that is a contentious, you know, statement in and of itself and there's still a lot of people that are, you know, fairly middle of the road, but then there are people were having a partner that matches their political ideology and their beliefs is very, very important to them. And you have to decide "Who am I? Is it very important to me that my partner aligns with exactly what I believe then put it out there".

Robin | Yes, be completely honest—yep—

Bela | Put it out there. Be candid, be candid, you know, you know, what the 2022 term of the year is in dating? Hard-balling. And what does that mean? We've had two years of being isolated in COVID. And Match put out a study that said between 60 and 70% of singles surveyed in their singles in America survey said that they're looking for real relationships. So people want—people are looking for love, and bonding. And, along with that, we don't want these flim-flam relationships that go on for too long. Hard-balling means: say what you want, and say it soon. If you are looking for a relationship that leads to marriage say that! You don't wait nine months or nine years to say that and hope! Management by hope is never a good philosophy. Right? Say it upfront. "Are we on the same page? I want to make sure that this is what you're looking for. I'm not saying you need to marry me but you are looking for a relationship that, you know, after dating exclusively for six months, you would know yea or nay whether you want to be with a person or not." If it's someone who wants what you want, they'll be like, "Absolutely."

I have had clients, Robin, I have a client in New York. Her name's Jen. Jen was out online dating 39 years old. Wanted to get married, and wanted to have kids and felt the ring of her biological clock. And, so we got her online, she had new photos, we wrote her profile did all the things she knew who was—we call them high GHQ guys, that's our trademark—high in "Good Husband Quality". She knew who he was, she knew what the red flags were. So she gets out there. And she meets a guy, and he seems amazing. Love him. I love him. Within three months, they were exclusive—boyfriend/girlfriend—and we have a whole slow dating process. So she was like, "Listen, I really want to have kids". He's like, "Listen, I get it. I want to date you for six months, and if things are as good in six months, as they are now, you will have a ring". So she called me goes" "What do I say?" I'm like "You've put out there where you are. Let's watch for markers." So we watched what he did. I had her not check in about the ring every month, right? Have fun, get to know each other. Are you getting deeper? How are your values? Is this someone you would want to partner up with? And have kids with? Six months to the day happened to be her 40th birthday—she got the ring. My text, one off at 11pm on a Saturday night and I thought "What is this?" And it was a picture of a finger with a ring on it, and she says, "I got my ring". And I—literally—just started screaming and jumping up and down in my own bedroom like "Oh my god, this works!" He was so awesome. We played our cards right? Slow dated, see how it goes. But yes, he said in "Six months, you will have your ring if things are where they are." Five months later, she was married, and she was five months pregnant.

Robin | Wow. Wow. See, those are—that's a beautiful story.

Bela | It's amazing, right? And so these things when you put it out there, and you vet this person—and remember, this isn't just about them vetting you it's about you vetting them as well. Are the good for you?! We pretzel ourselves and twist ourselves into all these things that we think, "Well if I do this, then maybe he'll really want to be with me and—" Just say: "Do you want to be in a relationship that's going to lead to marriage?!"

I had a client from Canada—last week was on the phone. She's been dating someone for a year and he's a little bit shy about—he seems like he's flim planing about the whole marriage thing. And comes from a relationship with parents—there was a contentious divorce when he was a kid. I said, "I need you to ask him two questions: Question number one, do you want to get married? If the answer is yes, the second question, do you want to marry me?"

Robin | Me? Yes.

Bela | "I need the answers to those two questions."

Robin | There's no need to be beating around the bush, right?

Bela | No.

Robin | Wow.

Bela | And what I want to tell you, ladies and gentlemen, and all people listening to this: You don't have to settle for something that you don't want. You don't have to settle for something that is less than what you want, don't get sucked into: "Well, why do I really need to get married? I mean, we live together, and it's fine." You are settling if you are not being true to your heart! True to what you're valuing. You will always feel that little voice inside of you. You don't have to settle for that.

Robin | So let's—let's talk about—when you're dating. Like. We talk about some of these key questions that you want to ask people early on, like you said, being straight up and honest. Are you looking for—"I'm looking for a long term partnership, eventually a marriage I hope? Are you are you on the same path?" What other questions would you— I've got an online question that came through for one of our community members about this. She says: "I'm having the same conversations over and over and over again, that lead nowhere. How do I make this more exciting because the initial interactions are so boring?" Well, there's that. But then I also wanted to get down to asking what are those right questions to ask ao that you're, you know, you're not wasting your time with people that are definitely not on the same path and it's probably not going to go anywhere.

Bela | Okay, so dear writer of this question, here's what I would challenge you with as your coach. I would say: "Okay, if these interactions are boring, describe to me your ideal date. What would it be? What questions would he ask you? What would you be talking about? And guess what? Asked those." When it gets boring, I'm like, "What would you like to happen?" "Lalalala lalalalala." Okay, great. Go make that happen. And they're like, "Oh." Like, why do we—why do we get into the passenger seat of the car? All the time! People, you have the steering wheel of these dates, you have the steering wheel of your dating life in your hands, but we so readily go and sit in the passenger seat and "oh, it's boring". Well, what the hell are you doing to make it exciting?

Robin | Exactly.

Bela | Make it exciting! Do you have a list of questions? Make it fun, say, "You know, what? What's the best memory you have from growing up as a kid?" Right? "What-What kind of kid were you? Did you get in trouble in class? Or were you, the kid that kept the peace?" Ask better questions for better conversation!

Robin | Right. You have to be—you're right—you have to be in control of this. It's not just sitting down and just expecting that this person is going to show up and be miraculous conversational-conversationalist, you have to be the same, right?

Bela | You have to you—

Robin | Be who you want to attract!

Bela | Be who you want to attract! And my definition of fun and a fun day is going to be different than Robin's, and there's going to be different from the person that asked this question. So I can't give you a list of 10 questions, that're gonna provide for a fun date. I can give you a list of 10 questions that might have you have more provocative conversations during the date, but you seem to know what you want out of these interactions. Go get it girl, go get it!

Robin | That's right. So, I would really like to talk about red flags.

Bela | Ahaha!

Robin | You teach people how to know that what red flags to look for. That's—this is a really important one, I think and we, you know, we can you know—if you're a kind optimistic person, like a lot of us are, you're like looking for the good people and you may be ignoring some clear red flags. What would you—just give us an example of, you know, some red flags that you're like, okay, that's, that was an eye [opener]. And I've got a—I've got a community question around this, that I'll share, but I just want to hear from you first, before we dive into that, that other question.

Bela | So how about this, because you know, me, I can give you 17 red flags. I'm going to give you one so we can get to your question from your writer. One red flag is: In online dating. If anybody says that they are not looking for "drama". That's a red flag. If someone says, "I'm not looking for drama", what I think that means, and I have a lot of data behind this, it means: "I'm going to be the one to cause you drama".

Robin | Wow. Yes. Right. And in the past, they've had a lot of drama, with relationships. So watch out.

Bela | Watch out! If they're saying I'm not looking for drama, it's like, "Oh! You're gonna bring drama! Okay, I got you. Okay. You may not be looking for it. But wherever you go, it surrounds you" because they're emotionally disregulated, or they're inconsistent, or they're unavailable. Right? And the list goes on. So, that is a big red flag to me.

Robin | Okay, I—good one! So we have we have a woman in our community that sharing her dating story. She met a man online, they met and he hit it off right away. He said he was 49 on the app. And weeks later, after they had had, you know, quite a few dates he admitted that he was 55. They spent a lot of time together, he was constantly talking about their future, they both met each other's kids, she—he invited—two months, three months and he invited her to his ex's with the kids and they decorate the Christmas tree together. Four months in and after the morning text messages about booking a holiday together, he out of the blue calls her and says he does not see an end with her. They're not— He doesn't see, you know—they're not together in the end. And she didn't see it coming at all. Right?

Bela | Oh my god.

Robin | But in hindsight, I'm sure there was a lot of red flags. Just in hearing this. What do you see could have been the red flags? I mean, I think the age thing right away—if somebody's lying to you, right away, Bela, wouldn't you say? Is that? Would you say that? That is—that is a major red flag?

Bela | I don't like lying. There's no such thing as a white lie. It's a lie, or it's a truth. Right? And I see people online that will say, "Oh, I'm 49" in their stated age, but then in their profile they'll write "I'm actually 55 I'm just trying to not get screened out by people that are younger". So I don't love that, and I don't love it because I find it to be—my empathy kicks in for that person—like they don't feel good enough as they are. [It's scary]. Right? For the person who telling the lie. So it is a red flag, and the red flag, it might be a really nice person who's just insecure about their age and maybe somebody once told them, "Oh, you know what, you're too old" and now they carry this around with them, and it's a thing and they need to go to therapy. They're a good person, other than that, it just happens to be that one wound.

However, it can also be the first of a hundred lies that this person is going to tell you. And that's the real rub with dating is: you don't know, you don't know. I've heard stories both ways with people that have lied about their age, confessed it on the first date, and the person gave them a break, and they're so glad they did and now they've been together for 15 years. But the person outed it right away. They didn't have to go digging after a million dates like it sounds like this person did. That he told her after, you know, 10, 15 dates. And it also, the other red flag for me in this situation is—I'll tell you, here's a quote—now I'm starting to think of Bela-isms—

Robin | Yes please!

Bela | What starts fast ends fast.

Robin | Mhmm.

Bela | So if you are if, you know—if this person wants to inhale, you. They want to take you away, have you meet the kids, spend holiday with the exes. That's A LOT in four months. That is crazy-train a lot. And people don't know that we're taught to think that love at first sight, it should be intense, it should be just like it played out. Again. We're not taught how to do this.

So, that in and of itself, with my clients would never ever, ever, ever happen. I don't let anybody get exclusive or stop their "dating funnel" until three to four months after they've met someone who looks amazing, and if he's got all the GHQs, and no red flags at that point, we might become exclusive. In our—with our clients, they're not even introducing this person to their friends yet, much less decorating the Christmas tree with the ex-wife.

Robin | Wow.

Bela | That's a lot in four months.

Robin | It is, but I also, I'm thinking about your your model with your clients. And I'm like, hmm?

Bela | Yeah, I mean, if I think that—

Robin | Three to four months, and not introducing your friends. You just you know—you do talk about pacing.

Bela | Thank you!

Robin | So I'm we're gonna get to that. But I, um, I just wanted to go back to this four month marker, because you've got this Love Lab that's coming up in February. It's called "Fix Your Picker" Love Lab.

Bela | Please! Do it!

Robin | I just love the name!

Bela | It's February 6th—

Robin | It's—it's great because our pickers are broken. Right?

Bela | —It's amazing!

Robin | But one of the things you're going to be teaching is why behavior changes at four months with avoidance. So this was something that was also conveyed in this story. Is that this person, this man, had been in quite a few four-month relationships and it just so happened that when he broke up with her, it was four months. So what is it about? Can you just kind of explain this? The form of behavior changes with avoidance?

Bela | So, it's so crazy. I you know, my theory is—and I think that there's science to back this up is—they can be really intoxicating, and they put everything out upfront, right? Emotionally avoidant people are like koala bears with broken legs. They're not toxic, they're not narcissistic, but that's the analogy I give my clients is they're like koala bears, but they just can't attach to the tree like their legs are broken. They're not bad! They're still cute koala bears. Their attachment systems are broken and whatever happened to them when they were kids—that's what happened. And so, remember, avoidantly-attached people value their independence over all, because nobody really ever took care of them. So they grew up thinking "I have to take care of myself". And so, usually at the four-month mark, when the hormones of, you know, the elevated testosterone and estrogen and all of the the crazy-making hormones, they can start to diminish at that point, when you don't have the capacity to fully attach—remember broken koala legs. It's game over. Then you're like, "I gotta move on to the next person because I'm not feeling it with you anymore. Because I can't securely attach intimately to you as a partner". So once those hormones were off, they're out to the next conquest. I reached—I got obsessed with the four-month thing because it happened to me in college with this on again off again relationship. I was the coolest, best, most beautiful girlfriend, until four months and one day! And I'm like "What happened?! How did I—How was I yesterday, at four months, the most amazing girlfriend and today I'm annoying? What happened? Detaching. Detaching. It's amazing.

Robin | It makes, it makes a lot of sense when you when you look at the science behind it and how behaviorl you know—a lot of our behavior in relationships is from what we learned from our caregivers—our main caregivers, our parents, right? So we're constant—whether that was really good, but most of us didn't have the best—a lot of us didn't have the best.

Bela | A lot of us didn't have the best models. Right?

Robin | No, and fifty percent of people are divorced. Well, right? A lot of our parents are divorced. So—

Bela | Right! Yeah, we're nature nurture. Right? What we learned from our parents?!

Robin | That's right. So what would you say the difference is between a red flag and a deal-breaker? Can you talk about that, please? Because there's definitely red flags and there's deal breakers.

Bela | Yeah! I think red flags are pretty consistent. Deal-breakers can differ person to person. Right? For some people, let's say, a differing religion can be a deal-breaker. For some people that want to be near family: I live in Chicago, my parents live in Chicago, I want to live in Chicago, someone that wanted to move me to Cabo would be a deal-breaker for me. Because being close to family is important to me. Those are deal-breakers, but those are Bela-specific deal-breakers. Those may not be specific to others. But red flags are pretty universal.

Robin | Yes. So you are helping people identify their deal-breakers? I mean, you really do need to know "What what is my hard line here?"

Bela | We need a hard line!

Robin | Well obviously, somebody that wants to have kids and somebody doesn't want to have kids. Well, come on now. There's a deal breaker.

Bela | Huge! Right then and there. That is a deal-breaker. What do you—Right! Where are you, you know? What do you believe about careers? What do you believe about education? For some people, education is a deal-breaker, for other people it's not. I have clients all over the map with this.

Robin | Yes, yes.

Bela | Right? So those aren't red flags, that's just, you got to match up with what's important to you. And what I would say is: question your deal-breakers, and your deal-makers and ask yourself, "Am I operating from my thinking-brain looking for a partner for me? Or am I operating from my reptile brain? Not questioning what's important to me or why?"

Robin | Yep

Bela | Right? For women, I'll say, okay, I get that you want a tall guy. Who doesn't like tall? We all like tall at the end of the day. But how important is height to your long term happiness?

Robin | I love this how you say—I've heard this before, it makes me laugh so hard: You know, "That person's height is not gonna matter too much when you're laying down."

Bela | Everybody's the same height lying down. So true! It doesn't matter. Right? So it's all right.

Robin | It's just so good. It's too good.

Bela | And so for women it's like "Well, I just wanna feel small." I'm like, "So maybe you have your own fitness goals you want to achieve!? Like, let's dig in. Let's dig in there a little deeper, right?"

Robin | Yeah, a little bit too much on your partner there. Yeah!

Bela | Right! I will go there with people like so often we want to be with someone who's ultra-fit instead of getting fit, because then it means we're fit. So there's so much deep rooted psychology to how we're selecting partners. Or "I need someone with a PhD". I'm like "Why? Why do you need that?" "Well, you know, um, well, my parents always told me I wasn't smart enough." I'm like "Them maybe you should go get a PhD."

Robin | Right!

Bela | You're battling your own demons. Marrying, it doesn't make you a PhD. Right? So yourself, love yourself. Build yourself up. You don't need a partner to fill in those voids. They can't.

Robin | Absolutely. Yeah, we're asking, Esther Perel talks so much about this, about how we're asking our partners to be too much in our lives.

Bela | Yes!

Robin | Right? It's not it's not about "You complete me". [laughter]. We are the Tom Cruises of the world. We're trying to have somebody that's going to complement our lives—you know—you don't need somebody to fix. Right? It's-it's about building something together.

Bela | 100%. One hundred, percent.

Robin | So one–one concept I really wanted you to explain, please, because I've heard you say this before, and I just need you to explain it. You're teaching people how to "screen people in" rather than "screening people out". And you you talk about filling your filling your funnel? So there's, is that two different things? Is that two different concepts? Or do they work together?

Bela | Um, they're two different concepts that work together. So, creating a funnel means having many options. It's like thinking about your, your retirement portfolio, you've got to have lots of different investments to keep yourself diversified, right? So if one goes up, the other goes down, you're still where you used to be. I look at a dating funnel and very much the same way. You want to have a diversified portfolio of people that you're dating until you decide you want to commit to one. Okay, so that's the funnel. Now, where does screening people in versus screening people out come from? We're so quick to screen people out if we don't feel chemistry, butterflies, fireworks attraction, we screen them out. "Let me just go see who's my next swipe, who's my next match." Just because you're not feeling the WHOOSH doesn't mean you should necessarily screen that person out. If you feel like you had fun, it was a good conversation, you may be a good values fit give the person a second date, and the third date and a fourth date. People will say, "Well, are they leading that person on?" I'm like, "No, you're trying to screen them in to see if the chemistry will go over the line." Remember, I told you, I ended up dating someone I had been 100% platonic friends with for six years doing my own analysis, and my work, made me go "Huh, I think he'd be a good bet for me, and he's cute". So chemistry can flip over the line when you are thinking about people in a different way. I'm not always saying it's always going to happen. You're not going to be attracted to every person because you think you want to, but give it a chance. People! You will uncork a bottle of wine and pour it in a fancy carafe and let it breathe so you have the optimal glass of wine! We don't let our dates breathe! We don't let our relationships breathe!

Robin | I love this analogy!

Bela | We're so quick to just screen people out!

Robin | Yes!

Bela | Right? Screen people in. If. There. Are. No. Red. flags.

Robin | If there are no red flags, there is a caveat. Yep.

Bela | 100%.

Robin | So, you know, you say that dating in the beginning is a process of elimination.

Bela | Yes, yes.

Robin | Right? Right? But that's also—you're giving people a chance, right? If there's red flags—Bye. Bye. Right?

Bela | Bye. Bye. Bye.

Robin | Okay. Yep. Okay. So, in pacing, let's talk about dating pacing, because this is the same thing. You—I have learned this already from you today, I didn't realize that you would telling your clients, "Okay, three to four months is, you know, the timeline you're looking at here. Take your time, and don't introduce people to your friends, and you've also got your funnel of people—you're not just exclusive right away." Right? So you're being honest. Let's say you're, you're dating multiple people. How are you communicating that? Let's say, you are interested in somebody. but you're like, "I don't know, it hasn't been three or four months. I'm still getting to know this person. They were a stranger, three months ago". Right? You just have to slow down here. Right? So are you communicating that very openly and honestly, that "I am dating other people?"

Bela | People need to earn your story. They don't get it up front.

Robin | Yeah.

Bela | So, I'm very much on the Bréné [Brown] page about this. So, people need to earn our stories. You don't have to say—if somebody asks you, "Are you dating other people?" You can say, "Huh, why do you ask?" Answer a question with the question, get more data people!

Robin | Okay, that's a good one.

Bela | Ask what their intention is. Why do they want to know? "Oh, that's so interesting. Why do you ask?"

Robin | Yeah. Right. Okay. I've got a question about pacing. So this one, this question is: "I've found that men pretend they want something more than a physical relationship, but then, once they get that, they don't want to engage in an actual emotional relationship, either. And I'm caught in a pattern of getting involved with these types of people. How can I avoid this? So this is not about pacing. Sorry, this is about, well, it's about choosing possibly the wrong people that are emotionally available.

Bela | Yeah, don't get don't get caught up in relationships that are physical upfront.

Robin | So we were talking about sex and having sex too early. Yeah!

Bela | Yeah! Don't do that! If that's your pattern, stop doing that! We call it sexclusivity. Don't have sex until you're in an exclusive relationship, and that's months later. If you know you're doing this, stop doing it. You were—you know, I worked with Steve Harvey on his show for seven seasons, and we're very different. And we come from different places in life. And yet, there was a common core that works with us from a dating standpoint, which is why we gave good advice together, it's like different, different same. And where we were very aligned, is on this topic of sexclusivity. And Steve—Steve wrote a book that's very famous, called "Act Like a Lady Think Like a Man" and in that book, he says, very famously, "Do not have sex for 90 days".

Robin | Mhmm.

Bela | Okay, and he tells this hilarious story about how he worked at Ford Motor Company, and he couldn't get health benefits for 90 days, and even when he had a fever of 117 and COVID, and malaria, and all of the things, he would still show up to work because he needed to get those medical benefits. You couldn't miss a day of work. And he's like, [Steve Harvey impression] "I did what I had to do for 90 days to get health insurance and you women on the third date are like, come on up! Sure. I'll have dinner at your house and two bottles of wine and The bed and all of that." So he's like, don't do that. We're very aligned in that. Don't do that. Don't give away—he calls it "Don't give away your cookies".

Robin | Wow. That is good. Yep. That's-that's excellent advice. So, when you are teaching this course called helping you "Fix Your Picker" this is another quote of yours: "You're not attracting the wrong people, you're picking and accepting the wrong people." This is this is something that we hear a lot in our community through questions like, "What can I do to attract better people?" Right? And you're saying it's not about that. It's about you're picking and accepting the wrong people!

Bela | Absolutely. Yeah. You need—

Robin | That's powerful. That—that actually is—that's-that's powerful stuff. Right?

Bela | Yeah. You—we always say "I'm not attracting the right people". And I'm like "You're accepting the wrong people."

Robin | Yeah! So, and before we before we end today, Bella, can you just tell us about like, I wanted to know, how, like—what is the process when somebody signs up as a client of Smart Dating Academy? Can you walk us through that?

Bela | Yes! Get ready for the best decision we'll ever make. I joke! We're like, you know—We're like having a professional best friend, some people say personal trainers, for your dating and love life. So, when you sign up, you know, we've got this "Fix Your Picker" Zoom Love Lab Workshop that happens February 6th, Sunday, from 1 to 4pm Central, it's a three hour investment, and it will blow your mind. If you like this episode today, you will really, really, really be blown away at the decisions you've made and know how to make better decisions. And we get—qe show you our graphs on pacing, we show you all the red flags by phase of dating, ao there's tons of things in there. And then our one on one practice that gets even deeper. So your first meeting with us, we typically work with people for six to 12 months, because there is no one-and-done in dating. People are like, "Oh my god, 12 months." I'm like, "This is the most important thing." Like Robin, you opened up saying, "The partner that you're going to choose, it will determine 90% of your happiness are 90% of your misery." That is not a 90 day issue.

Robin | No!

Bela | Right?

Robin | It's an investment. Like—

Bela | It's an investment. It is an investment. It's like, going to school to take the course that you should have—we should have all taken when we were 17 years old, right? And now we're teaching that and it's one on one. And it's not an a group. It's all about you and you have a coach. And then, not only do we teach you—you know who your GHQ guy is you know what your red flags are, by phase of dating, how to pace things. But then, we're in the weeds, man, we're in your inbox, we take your photos for you, I wrote a book that helps you write your online profiles, and you have a coach that is in there looking for red flags with you—telling you yea or nay on the dates! We have dating scorecards that we have our clients look for green flags, red flags. There's a whole process. So if you're serious about your dating life, and you want some results, you have probably gotten to where you are in your life because you've had a plan. If you need a plan, we're the right place.

Robin | Yes, and something that you've also shared in your TED Talk. And this this, these statistics are a little bit frightening to me, like 41% of first marriages end in divorce 67% of second, marriages end in divorce, and 74% of third. So the stats just keep going up! The more times you get married. So let's say you're a divorced person. I'm married for the second time, and I have an amazing husband, and I had a really—I had a great first husband. I really did. I just felt like it wasn't a forever thing. That's okay. So that's my perspective on that. However, I think if, you know, you are looking for your next partner in life if you already had a long term relationship and you're like "Okay, I really don't want this to happen again. I don't want to go through that again", because divorce is so freakin painful. Like you said a year commitment to to committing to learning how to do it the right ways and you bring that the right person in—that's, that's money that you can't—it's an invaluable!

Bela | Invaluable. one hundred percent.

Robin | Investing in yourself. I love, I love that.

Bela | Invest in yourself.

Robin | You know, for singles, and for all of us that are even in relationships, I think that we can all benefit—we just benefit from your sage advice. And it's about really what you say, this advice about choosing elevator people and being that elevator person for people around you whether you're in a date—when you want to date you you know you're there to come across as your best self right and—lift that person up that you're with like go like you said go in there curious, bring some amazing questions! You're there to get to know somebody and that throughout the whole dating process, right? And just in-in our lives, we can be elevator people to all those around us. So I know you are that to so many Bela, I'm so uplifted every time that we talk

Bela | Ditto!

Robin | And I just love our time together.

Bela | Thank you for having me.

Robin | Thank you so much.

Bela | And, you know, we just dropped a podcast, the Smart Dating Academy podcast and you will be a guest on my podcast too. I hope at some point when your schedule frees up but—

Robin | I would be honored. Thank you.

Bela | So grateful and love working with you. Thank you for having me!

Robin | And for those of you that don't know Bela's work, please go to smartdatingacademy.com. She has an amazing company and her IG following, you're on you're on Facebook, as well.

Bela | Yeah.

Robin | So, all and, of course your podcast, so, and we'll see you tomorrow on the IG live!

Bela | Cannot wait!

Robin | Goodnight Bela! Thank you so so much! Love to you!

Bela | Bye! Thank you! You too! See you tomorrow!

Robin | Please visit realloveready.com to become a member of our community. Submit your relationship questions for our podcast experts at reallovereadypodcast@gmail.com. We read everything you send. Be sure to rate and review this podcast. Your feedback helps us get you the relationship advice and guidance you need.

The Real Love Ready Podcast is recorded and edited by Anna Lafrenière. Transcriptions by otter.ai and edited by Anna Lafrenière.

We at Real Love Ready acknowledge and express gratitude for the Coast Salish people, the stewards of the land on which we work in play, and encourage everyone listening to take a moment to acknowledge and express gratitude for those that have stewarded and continue to steward the land that you live on as well.