Preamble | Robin Ducharme | Today on Let's Talk Love I'm speaking with Love Strategist, author, and Relationship Expert Elizabeth Overstreet. Elizabeth is one of these people who has an old soul. She has a unique perspective on how to make relationships work. I appreciate her focus on self-awareness and self-accountability when it comes to how we approach relationships. We talk about breakups versus breakthroughs, using your intuition when dating, and how important it is to see your partner with new eyes even if you've been together for a long time. I learned so much from our discussion, and I hope you do too.

Introduction | Robin | Welcome to the Let's Talk Love Podcast, where we flip the script on outdated narratives and cliches about love and relationships. I'm your host, Robin Ducharme, founder of Real Love ready. This podcast is for anyone who wants to be better at love, regardless, or relationship status. We'll talk about the intimate connections in our lives, and the challenges and complexities inherent in those partnerships. Through are no holds barred interviews with global experts we'll gain insight about ourselves and learn new skills to improve our relationships. Because when we learn to love better, we make the world a better place. Are you ready for open and honest conversations about love? Let's get started.

Welcome to our next episode of The Let's Talk Love Podcast. Today, I am so happy to introduce our lovely, beautiful and smart guest, Elizabeth Overstreet. Hi, Elizabeth!

Elizabeth Overstreet | Hi Robin! How's it going?

Robin | We're so so happy to have you, Elizabeth. I know we've had you on our IG a number of times. And I'm so happy that we have an hour. Well, we'll see how long this takes. But to just discuss all the work, the beautiful work you're doing. I know you're based out of North Carolina, but you are helping clients from all over. That's the beauty of the world we live in now, right? And I'm going to introduce you: I know that you are a Love Strategist, an author, and Relationship Expert. And, you are leading what you call a Love Movement. And I love this right? Because at Real Love Ready, we're all about love. And I love the fact that you are leading this Love Movement. You teach us all to love smarter, braver, while being true to you, and your goal is always to share practical ways for us to have healthy and rewarding relationships with ourself and others. And that is really what our goal is as well, so that's why I really wanted to have you on this podcast is so that we can share the real deal practical tools for being better in our relationships. And you're on a mission to help people get it right. So thank you, Elizabeth, for being here!

Elizabeth | Thank you Robin for having me what a great introduction. Thank you so much. You're right. I just want to make it simpler for people, but I also want to give them tools that really work because I think there's a lot of fluffy advice sometimes out there about relationships. But I think people are really being intentional about wanting to have the right relationships. I think the more we can help people course correct, and lessen than that time period of learning about what works and what doesn't work. You know, it helps everyone in the end.

Robin | Yeah. Well, I wanted to just open up and ask people or ask you to tell us more about yourself. I know you're happily married and you have an adult daughter, you were married before and you you're open about the fact that you're divorced, this is your second marriage, can you can you share some history about you know, maybe the lessons you learned in your first marriage. And you you know, how you met your second your, your now husband, and just how this marriage is different, how this relationship is different, and you're different.

Elizabeth | So I think my clients are always surprised that I can relate to them in lots of ways, and I think it's because I've been on similar journeys that they've been on. So I've dated as a single person, and then I was married at a young age, then I ended up divorce and then I dated as a single parent, you know, after having gone through a divorce. And then I finally get on the right path to remarrying.

So there was a lot of mistakes I made, honestly, along the way. And now I understand these mistakes were made so that I could impart, you know, some of this wisdom and these learnings to other people. And I would just say when I first got married, there was so many things I just was very green about. Like the importance of communication, the importance of how your partner thinks through things, understanding who they are, how that takes time to really understand who they are. And I think through different experiences and going through different, trials and tribulations and some good points— because me and my daughter's biological dad we do still have a good co parenting relationship—there's just so many learnings after that I didn't get it right right away, post divorce was scary.

So I know a lot of people are sitting in that bucket where they're like, "Oh, my God, I got to go back out here and go through this process again" and there's, there's a lot of vulnerability that has to happen. There's a lot of being brave that has to happen. So I want to take people through that journey, but also like, let them know that it's normal to feel all these, you know, feeling some trepidation, some fear along the way it happens. But there are things that you can do to kind of ease that process and ease into that process and the more you can learn, and the quicker you can recover, I say, from what you learned, what doesn't work, what does work, I think that you could set yourself up for a really healthy relationship in the long term.

So I'm fortunate, now I'm remarried, and I really am enjoying my husband. And you know, I have bonus children, which I'm enjoying that part as well, because I'm learning a lot of new things, having an expanded family. But I would just say the way we approach communications a lot different the way we are intentional about how we interact and all of those things feel a lot more different, probably because there's maturity and a lot of learning on both sides that we both have gone through in the past.

Robin | Mm hmm. Absolutely. You help clients identify unhealthy patterns so they can not repeat the same mistakes in their next relationship. Can you tell us some unhealthy patterns that you've seen and how you can help clients to correct those?

Elizabeth | You know, I was listening to an interview the other day, and I thought it was so relatable. The lady was like a data science person. So she looked at behavioral science and how we date and some people are just better daters than others. That's the realistic side of it. But going back to what you're saying, there's really like three types of people she identified, you know, one, is that person that is the Romanticizer. If things don't like, operate a certain way, or doesn't feel a certain way, or it's not exciting, they're like, "Nope, this isn't it."

There's the Maximizer, the person that was like, Okay, I'm, they're always looking for that person to have that one more thing.

And then there was the Hesitater, and that was the person that was like the most kind of insecure about some of their, you know, attributes, like how people felt about them. So they were putting more of the onus and the pressure on themselves. And I was thinking a lot about this. And I think that when you have patterns, it's very hard to see them when you're single, because it's just you and yourself, unless something really happens consistently. And you just have such a high level of self awareness, you're like, wait a minute, this is something that's happening. But when you are in a relationship, the reason why these cycles and these things come out is because when you're in a relationship it's a mirror. This person is mirroring back to you things and telling you things about yourself and that's when I think it's like, "oh, I can't run and hide". And some people still do run and hide, right, but, but at the end of the day, I think that that's when you kind of see the cycles, I mean, when you know something consistently happens over and over. At a certain point, you have to have some self accountability, and realize, "Okay, I am the common denominator in these scenarios. So there might be some introspection I need to do to kind of figure out what these you know, traits are, these are these toxic behaviors that keep creeping up over and over?"

Robin | Yeah. You talk about how you're surrounded by people in your life that you love that have had long term marriages, your parents, your grandparents, your aunts and uncles that on average have been married 50 plus years. Right? So, um, you know, you've spent time with people as you're growing up, and what have you identified, are these—What have you learned from them that model the healthy, healthy relationship?

Elizabeth | Yes, I'm very fortunate, you know, to come to this family, you know, be in this family dynamic that when people get married, they just they stick through it, like they they're gonna be together no matter what. And so being on the inside of that and watching it as a child and a teenager, as an adult, I saw a lot of like, what works, what doesn't work, what I learned that there's, there's no perfect relationship, even when two people are compatible. There are things they don't agree on. There are things sometimes are that are still a rift, 20, 30, 40, 50 years later, they're still talking about it. But what I also learned is just the importance of communication, and like just never giving it up, like almost have an attitude of like, "We're in this togethera nd we're gonna keep talking. Sometimes we're going to take a break because like, we can't come to an agreement, right? But we're going to keep trying to communicate", because I think the communication signals to your partner that you care about them, you care about their needs, that you're invested in them—I saw that as being a big thing.

Also allowing people to be who they are. It takes time to like really understand someone and there's a saying that "sometimes you can't stand someone because you don't understand them". And I don't know

Robin | I like that!

Elizabeth | Yeah. And I don't know how many times like we've been in scenarios where we meet someone, and we prejudge them, because we think they're one thing. But as we get to know them, we're like, oh, that's why they're like that. And then once you have that understanding, there's a friendship that, you know, comes out of that lots of times. And I think it's the same thing of relationships. I mean, there's such a period of time where you are really discovering your partner, understanding them and, and that just takes time. And some people say, "Well, I've been with this guy, like 10 years, or five years or 20 years, but the reality is, we have so much going on around our relationships, like work, or, you know, whatever, you know, raising children, other hobbies, responsibilities so when you really like parse it down, the amount of time we're spending with our partner is really not that much." We spend more time sometimes with people we work with, right that our partner, so you have to take that in consideration, and you are still learning it, that person. And I've noticed that in the relationships with my, you know, my parents and grandparents.

My mom recently passed last, you know, about a year ago now, and yeah, and that was really hard. But one thing that I think has been really a blessing is my dad is sharing more and more, because as we all know, mom is usually the communicator in the family, right? Spreading all the information about stuff, and so he's given me additional insights into things about his relationship that he really appreciated about my mom. So even then, being married 57 years, he's like, wow, I recognize this, I recognize this piece. So for him to still be at that point of learning and evolving and recognize that these to me are signals that, wow, it's a journey. You know, you don't learn everything right away.

Robin | It really is. And I love that because I actually was reflecting on this exact thing that you were talking to somebody about, I think it must have been on one of your podcast episodes with your husband.

You said that "We enter into a relationship and expect our partners to know us well, like our parents, right? When in fact, we constantly are uncovering and learning about each other. And each of us are changing and evolving over time. So and that's just always the way it's going to be. So, Esther Perel promotes that as well. She's like, you have like, once you think you know, somebody, it's like that it's almost not a good thing. You're always, obviously, we're all learning and growing and changing. So you have to keep up with that. Right? I really, I really do appreciate that.

So I wanted to talk about, you do talk a lot about self love and self accountability. And I think this is, this is this is so important, right? One of your quotes, I've got so many quotes that I wanted to share. Elizabeth Overstreet quotes. "When you have self love, it also includes having self accountability, people are often not willing to recognize their shortcomings, be receptive to feedback about the shortcomings, and recognize it as a significant part of exercising self love too."

And it's just not all this stuff about having a bubble bath and treating yourself to massage and "I'm loving myself, and I'm really appreciating myself." It's all about taking, like really a hard look at yourself and your shortcomings. So do you when you're working with either couples or singles? Or just anybody in general? Do you ask certain questions for them to reflect on to identify shortcoming? Yeah,

Elizabeth | Yeah, I try not to like, assume, but because I do this a lot. I do pick up on things that other people don't pick up on pretty quickly. So I think I'm always curious about like, "Okay, what brought you here? You know, what do you feel like are your biggest challenges" and sometimes there's just cues are indicators that people are still struggling with self love. And what that looks like is they're kind of pointing out what the other party has done or what they're not doing for them. Or they're pointing out the history of like, how they were raised. And that's saying that these things don't affect you.

But I'm a big believer that like, once you know, you have some of these gaps that you do the work. And I think that's the hardest part as a coach, because you would think people get come in and they get the advice. And they're like, "Okay, I'm good." But often it takes years to change and break these patterns. I mean, because it's taken years to build these patterns. So to answer your question, yeah, I typically dig into like, who they are, what makes them tick, because I think society does talk about self love, but I feel like sometimes it's very generic. There's, there's never, I shouldn't say never—but oftentimes, we don't hear the accountability piece. And I'm like, "How can you really shift or change or get better if there's not an accountability piece?" That's the only way to grow!

And then I just think about our examples, you know, our lives and how they're shaped and how, oftentimes our greatest moment of growth is through change, or something that's uncomfortable or facing something we fear, and I don't know why, you know, to me, it's natural to tie that into yourself as well. That it's okay if you struggle with communication. It's okay. If you you know, you struggle with commitment, like it's okay to burn have awareness and now figure out okay, how do I shift this? Or how do I change this, but you can't change the problem if you've never acknowledged there's a, you know, problem there.

Robin | That's right. You say "Self awareness is still you being who you are. And also having awareness of how you affect other people", of course, right?

And you know, some, you know, one of your titles—I love this—is Love Strategist, and you teach strategies to love better. You say "Love is a natural thing that happens, but you can be intentional about having self awareness of your patterns. The foundation starts with you understand yourself and where your gaps are," like you said, and, "and work on that". Right? So we've got it, we've got a community question from about about about a pattern and one of our community members is asking: "Co-dependency and jealousy have been recurring patterns in my relationships. How do I overcome these patterns? Is it my fault that these are issues?"

Elizabeth | Hmm, that's an interesting way that is posed. Number one, kudos for whoever submitted this question because at least you're recognizing that this is a theme that's recurring. Maybe someone has said it to you. I'm making assumptions here, but this is what I'm guessing. Maybe someone has said it to you. Or maybe you notice it that at a certain point, you may be self sabotaging your relationships, right? Because of this codependent behavior, or, you know, the jealousy. So I don't think it's really a fault thing and I don't like to term it that way. I think it's like having self awareness that, okay, I keep hearing this theme, or this theme keeps coming up, in a theme does keep coming up, and like who you're attracting who you're dating, or the behavior keeps happening, there's some self work that has to happen.

Because the other person no matter like how great they may present, and even if they satisfy, you know, being totally attended to to you, and being there, they're not going to cure that thing that's internal. And there's always a root to a problem, right? So I would be curious, if you reflected on your life, you just went back in time? What did you see? Or remember that triggered this type of behavior? What Where's it coming from? Because I think if you can find out what the root cause of something is, now, your self awareness is even heightened to a greater level. And now you can start doing the work to figure out okay, how do I change this course, so I'm not self sabotaging? Because like, there's a lot, there's a lot of people, sometimes I do attract the right person but it's really not about the person being right, it's about you being I think, in the right state of mind, as well in the right place. So it is two connect parts so you know, having a healthy, long relationship.

Robin | Yeah, I mean, that's, that's the crux of it. Right? If you have, you have the most amazing partner, but you've got all these issues on the inside? How is that partnership going to be healthy, right? Unless you have sorted out your own stuff? That's, that's, that's where the accountability piece comes in, doesn't it?

Elizabeth | And it seems like it's a natural thing. I mean, we know it logically, but it keeps happening. It reminds me of kind of how people were like, I need the person to have these 30 things. And my first question is, "What are those 30 things do you have?" And you know, so, it's not just about "What can they do for you?" but like, "What would you do for them? What value would you add?"

Because sometimes I think when people are looking so externally for someone to satisfy those things, there's things they're thinking, Okay, this will take care of those things for me, and it won't, because it's not your thing is their thing. So I'm always curious, like, what's the foundational reason for it as well, that you're requesting it? And like, what are you know, what do you bring in as well? Because that really, when you know you're dating? Well, you you're very clear on who you are. So you will, in your mind, you'll definitely have these you may want someone but I do think also, you're more reasonable and flexible. Because often what we think we want isn't what shows up. If you ask a lot of married people, you know, they love their spouse, okay, no, no doubt. But if you ask them, "Is this the person you thought you would marry?" a lot of times, they're like, "No, I didn't know I needed this balance". And that's the whole point of relationship should be complimentary, you should be, it should be iron sharpening iron.

Robin | Can you explain that analogy? What does that mean "iron sharpening iron."

Elizabeth | I don't think you have to be good at everything and have someone as good at the same things. I think if you have two people who have skill sets that are complementary to each other, that you can actually have a more powerful relationship. And I think that the easiest way to think of this is like: When teams make decisions the decision is good based on a couple of things. People bring in different experiences, different backgrounds, different ways of thinking through that problem, and coming together. Usually when there's "groupthink"—which means everyone is thinking the same—you don't come up with the greatest solutions. So what does that look like in a relationship? "Okay, I'm not great with money, but I have money. But the person I'm marrying, they may not have as much money, but they're really great with money." That could be a balance because you know how to make money. They may know how to manage the money better.

Or say something you're very great organizer, but the other person's more like, "Let's do things in the moment". Right? You're the OCD over here, you're like, I" gotta plan everything." There's balance when those two people come together because while it's great to be organized, and to be a planner, sometimes there are wonderful things that can happen in the moment, and that person who's a little more impulsive can balance you out, as long as the impulsiveness isn't suddenly extreme. But they can balance you out, where now it's like, wow, we're planning this, but we're also creating opportunities to just enjoy the moment. So I think sometimes the complimentary piece gets overlooked, because we look for like kind of the checklist or, you know, the people that look good on paper. And often you put those people together in a relationship that look good on paper. And that's not always what creates a long standing, you know, long lasting relationship.

Robin | Yeah. So let's talk about "Law of Attraction." For those people in our community who are single and seeking partnership, I think this is just one of those things where I just want to quote you first says, it's important to say, it's important to recognize that what you attract is a direct reflection of who you are and how you value yourself. Can you explain what you mean by this? In relation to...

Elizabeth | Yeah, I hear a lot of people. Yeah, I hear a lot of people say there's no good women, there's no good men out here. Or I hear people saying, well, they you know, just like they have excuses almost like about the relationship and why it goes the way it does.

And I just feel like there's when you're in relationships, where you're seeking relationships, and sometimes when we fall into the wrong patterns of relationships, part of that is because of where we are, is sometimes the same thing will show up in a different body, different name, but it's the same situation. That's a recurring theme. And I think if you really think about it, it plugs back to something you haven't dealt with. So like, if you're suffering from low self esteem, then you may attract people that are similar in a similar state, cuz they're gonna feel comfortable around you. If you are someone that thinks that you always have to have the hero or the heroine complex of saving or getting someone to that your level, then you're gonna attract that energy, you know, to you. And I use myself as an example. And also the clients I've coached. I just remember like being like, there's no, there's no good people out here, like, oh, but we're in a world of over a billion people. Number one, is some of our country's at least over 300 million over my country. So there's someone there, but sometimes we're not paying attention to it, because we just haven't, we don't know what good looks like, like, you often don't know what good or healthy looks like, if you have been stuck in this rut of being people who aren't, you know, a healthy mate number one, or you're not in a healthy state. And then I just remember, like, personally, when I shifted my mindset, it was like, men everywhere. I was like, Wow, there's so many men like it, you know, I was like, this is very interesting, because I started looking at men differently and looking for different qualities, you know, beyond like, the more superficial qualities. So that's why I say a lot of times I think we're people, sometimes we're not looking, you know, we're very, what's the word I'm looking for, we're a little superficial on our wants, or we're a little unrealistic. On our once we talked about those three kind of people out there, like, the person is always like, well, if they hit this one more thing, you know, and this is the thing, you're, you're always gonna find someone and they have that one more thing, but at a certain point, you have to really kind of lay the sword down to say, Okay, does this person have enough of the thing, you know, for me to feel content and happy in this relationship? So I just think we hold ourselves back a lot of times.

Robin | Mm hmm. Definitely. I, I agree with you, once you change your perspective, the world can open up in a different way. Right? Your experience will change.

Elizabeth | It feels hokey to people will you say like, no, the numbers say this and this and that. But when you look at statistics, because I'm a data person, like most women, if they want to get married, there's an opportunity in their life to lifetime to marry is like over 80%. So you have to assume there's a percentage of people that just make a choice, like this is not for me, you know, to be married, I want a different relationship dynamic, which is fine, but the options, the opportunities are out there. Absolutely.

Robin | What about readiness? This is something something you've said. "If you're not ready, and you're looking for attachment, you might be attaching to the wrong people." So, this is this is something that we hear a lot as well. It's like, well, you know, "how long do I need to be separated from or divorced? Before I'm ready to date. I don't feel I don't know if I'm ready yet, I might need to do a lot more healing." You know, I think that's such a personal thing. But can we talk about this in relation to readiness for dating and new relationship healing? When healing is an ongoing process? Right, I think there's some, there's a little bit of gray in this area...

Elizabeth | I think there's a lot of gray because healing isn't linear. So it looks different to different people. So I can't sit here and say, Okay, you should wait a year, you should wait two years, you should wait five years, it really depends on the person. But I think a real good tell-tale sign that you aren't healed is that you keep having the recurrent situation have in close relationships. So if you keep going into relationships, and they end up going the wrong way, maybe there's codependency we talked about maybe there's emotional abuse, maybe you keep picking people who are emotionally unavailable, there's probably something in your healing process that you may need to just stop, pause, take a moment, reflect and figure out. So I don't think it's a linear process. I can't I'm not a person that would like say that because I don't I think everyone is different.

But I do think like people, for example, who jump from relationship to relationship that can be difficult, because you're not really giving yourself like time and space to kind of figure out okay, what happened, you're moving too fast, like you're on to the next thing. But I know there'll be some people that are you it's fine. That's how I found someone. So you always have an exception to the rule. But personally, I think the space is never bad. I mean, the more you can invest in who you are, and getting time with yourself, because once you're in a relationship that shifts, you're going to now be putting time into your family or partner. You should take advantage of it. It's okay. Like, being single is okay. I know there's a lot of romcons and tropes on TV that you're not complete until you find someone. Everyone's completeness should work for what works for them. I'm a big believer in that and completeness to some people may be just I want to casually date completeness to another person might be I want to eventually be in a committed relationship, but always maintain separate living quarters. And then some people might want to get married. And then you have people that are doing polyamory. So I think you got to figure out like what works for you. But one thing I would caution against is like when you are constant going from person to person, and there's intimacy involved, I think we sometimes don't realize that you have more maturity, the exchange of energy that that can take from you. Because like casual sex isn't always casual sex, because you may be engaging with one person, but you don't know who they're engaging with. So now you're kind of pulling a lot of energy, you know, to you from different people you may not be aware of. And you know, you've heard people say this, sometimes I'm like, I feel a little crazy, like, I just can't find my, my piece or my center. And I think some of that could be like, just your you might be out there too much, and everyone for you may need to take a step back, because there is something that does come with physical intimacy. There's an emotional and spiritual exchange, in my opinion. So I mean,

Robin | I agree with that. Absolutely. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So what is your guidance on when to have sex with someone that you're dating? Let's say you're connecting. And number two, what about the opinion that someone will want? I was talking to one of my best friends who's dating and she's looking for her next partner in life and we were we were just talking about this exact topic around, you know, is it eight dates, nine dates? Is there a set amount of time, because in her opinion, she thinks that, you know, she's not going to jump in and have sex with somebody right away. However, she's like, I want to make sure that we are sexually compatible, because if we're not, let's say we wait four months, I realize we're definitely not sexually compatible. It's not gonna work. So that was her argument for not—maybe not giving it that much time.

Elizabeth | I think there's like two sides to the story. Okay. So I don't think there is a certain three days, six months, nine months, I don't think that stuff works. I think you have to do what feels right for you and that person, I but on the other side, I would argue waiting isn't a bad idea. What I reserved in the males that I coach, if a man is invested in you, you decided to have sex on the first date there day 100 days doesn't make a difference. If he wants to be with you. He's going to put in the time and energy and there's something that happens with men that they don't often tell us but I've learned as I have brothers to some outing some men secrets on this one, but you know, men build connection over time and by emotionally being with you but not always necessarily that it has to be tied to sex. So the more time a guy spends with you, getting to know you, he feels like "I'm investing time I'm investing time I'm investing time" and something clicks and it's like it actually pulls him closer to you.

Now a lot of people will say, well, there are other women that are willing to do this and that. But trust me, many men know what bucket a woman fits into, and if they really want to invest in you, you not having sex immediately is not going to turn them off. In fact, you will stand out because oftentimes nowadays, I mean, from the male clients, I coached, everything's happening really fast. And even men who like sex and talk about the desire to have sex are kind of like sometimes put off by how quickly it's happening. So I'm all about sexual satisfaction and sexual intimacy, good healthy sex with someone that you care about. But I would just caution women, like don't think, Okay, I gotta have sex now. Otherwise he's gone. Or to your friend's point, well, what if the sex is bad?

I think we focus on a component. But I think, as I've interviewed sex and intimacy experts on my show, my podcast, you know, they they have said things like, look, sex with most people is going to be bad at first, because it takes time unless he's there to learn each other is you have to learn each other. And so I also feel that emotional connection feeds to that intimacy connection. So sometimes that weight is worth it. Because you know each other more, you can talk about what you like, what you don't like, a lot of time you get to it, it's like, oh, that was good. First try, you know? Yes. Communication. And it's just personally thinking about people, like where you've had that, you know, and I think a lot of us can relate to this on the man, the male and female side, the person was always bragging. And most you're like, that was horrible. You're like, I got totally, that was bad marketing. But it was often the person it took time to, like, get to know you. They understood who you were, they asked you questions you didn't pick up on it right away, but maybe on the back game, like they were asking me a lot of questions. And now I know why. And that would often end up being the more satisfying, you know, sexual experience. So just, you know, keeping those things in mind are important.

Robin | I really appreciate that advice, Elizabeth. And I think, you know, even for same gender, couples, really just two people in general, if you're investing time in each other, before getting sexually intimate. How can that be a bad thing? Right, right, you're both gonna do that. And let's just say doesn't work out after, let's just say you're together for two months. And then the next thing and you haven't slept together? And next thing, you know, that person just you discover that, Oh, this isn't my right person. Well, are you going to regret not sleeping with them? Probably not.

Elizabeth | And that's another thing sometimes, like having sex too prematurely can build a false connection. Meaning that, you know, once I mean, no matter how much we try to fight this, there is biology and science to this as women as men, like, you know, things get crazy in these relationships sometimes, because once you're intimate with someone, it just opens up things in your mind and your mental state to think a certain way about that person. But sometimes that blinds you to other things. And I think before you have sex, as you're building emotional connection, you're almost like open like you can see things you're more aware of things. You're not your vision isn't clouded by that emotional part yet. So there's there's value to that. And like you said, you could two months in be like, Ooh, I'm glad it didn't go there. Like that wasn't the person for me? Because you could discover something where it's not the right.

Robin | Yeah. We let's talk about red flags. And we do have a community question that I'll bring in. But, you know, you you do coach people on trusting their intuition and noticing red flags? Can you give us some examples of red flags you warn your clients to watch out for?

Elizabeth | I think, like people make preconceived judgments about people very quickly. And I think that's not the way to go. The first stage is just the first date. It's not, it doesn't mean you're getting married doesn't mean it's forever, it's just a time for you to figure out and discover is this somebody I want to go on a second date with. And I think, you know, often when it comes to like red flags, is pretty obvious like, because we don't think that way, a lot of times like that the first date is just the first date and that it might, you know, I heard someone make the joke, it might be a smoldering smoldering fire, like you might be a slow burn. And that's okay because sometimes you can grow fonder of someone over time. But I think a red flag, actually, is the thing that we're taught, that is actually not always a good thing, when things go really fast. When this person wants to insert you and everything very quickly, when they want to, like shift how you are, how you present.

You know, I don't know how many of us have had experience with begging someone where they're like, I don't like that you're wearing that. And not saying your partner can't give you feedback, but I'm talking about people really trying to mold you into something. I think those are red flags. I think you know, someone who doesn't, when they're talking about past relationships, you don't hear any acknowledgement or growth or mistakes. You know, they they constantly tell you the negative side of those people in those situations, but there's not any balance at all about well, you know, maybe I could have done this better because if anyone's been in any relationship, and we're really being honest with ourselves, we No, there's things we could have done better. And those are just a few things. And I think, you know, just, I think paying attention to your gut and your instinct, your intuition.

You know, in retrospect, we can pinpoint the moment something was off in a relationship. When you ask people, they'll be like, "It was like three months in, and I saw this, this and this, but I kind of just like shrugged it off, or I let it go." Pay attention to that. I mean, I think you use your heart, your mind, your intuition, and your intuition is there for a reason, and if something doesn't feel right, validate, you know. There's a lot of catfishing going on, there's a lot of people. You know, online dating makes things a little trickier, so people can really hide behind a perception versus who they are. But you still, there's times, like people haven't met people, and they think they're in a relationship, and they haven't had any kind of, like, physical interaction with that person, validate those things. If someone's not talking to you on the phone, or FaceTiming you or trying to be with you on a date for two or three months. Like that's probably a red flag. So those are things that come to mind.

Robin | Yeah. So this this question is not necessarily about red flags, but it was something something that came in from the from a community member, and it's about from a person in a relationship. So my partner and I have lived together for just over a year. We're talking about getting married in the next couple of years, but what I'm caught up on is that he won't discuss his or our finances. I see him spend a lot. But we work in the same industry. And as far as I know, we have similar salaries, and I'm getting nervous about his spending habits, and what that might mean for us going forward. How do I broach this topic without him feeling ambushed or called out?

Elizabeth | So I think in relationships, there are things called touchy topics. And this is one of, you know, money, sex and intimacy family, in laws, like these are sometimes very sensitive topics for different reasons. But your instinct, this person is having their intuition or something they're feeling. And I think you need to lean into that. This is a touchy topic, I would say to the person, I'm in a relationship with like:

"Hey, you know, we're at the talking about getting married, I really want us to be able to plan for our future, so that we could retire at a certain age"—you know, you make it more like about the future and about you—"But one thing I'm just really, you know, wanting to know, what we could do is just kind of go through and see where we are currently. Because, you know, in order for us to get there in the future is important to like, know where we are right now, would you mind talking, you know, Would you be open to talking through some of our finances, and how we can work together to get to this angle."

So I think you're opening it up, because you are on this track to getting married, I would be concerned if the person pulls back, if they don't want to share this information. Because oftentimes, with so many horror stories of people getting married, and people not knowing so less financial situation, bless you. And the fact that a lot of times, you know, when you are married, now it's legal, and you are going to be responsible. So you do need to know like, what their debt looks like, what their income looks like, what their credit looks like, because now you're doing things probably jointly on when that happens. So it's a touchy topic. But if you're feeling apprehension, there's probably a reason for that. But I think you go ahead, and you address that now rather than later. And if you can't address that, now, that's also going to be a problem because in marriage, you're going to be talking about money matters. Better to get the practice in now and address it versus waiting for later and finding out some things that could be more detrimental.

Robin | And as partners, they live together, right? So there there are shared finances, and it's one of those conversations that may be difficult to have, but they have to be had on a regular basis when you're when you're when you're when you're married money is definitely something that right people fight over or it can be a challenge.

Elizabeth | It's one of the top reasons people get divorced, so if that doesn't make you want to talk about it, it should make you want to talk about i, because it's one of the top reasons people get divorced. I don't think it's so much about money. It's about people's relationship to money, how they manage money. So better to have awareness of that now and make the informed decision if this is gonna work in the long term versus waiting and wasting more years, and then this information flaring up later. And so I think it's good too, because maybe you're more of a saver and he's more of a spender because you're seeing he's spending more. And you may need to adjust, you know, figure out in your mind, okay, "Is this going to work for our jobs, our standard of living what we're trying to do? The fact that I may want to retire at this point." I think those are realistic things to think about.

Robin | Yeah. And I think you know, this is this is something that is so important, right, like getting, I know that before I was being married, and we still do, counseling. We did hire a therapist to help us with a number of things that we were working through. Because it's like these are big issues and we are getting married, and even throughout our marriage, we're happy to take any counseling therapy that we need to work through things that we just can't figure out the two of us. Having another objective point of view, just, it's just nothing but help. Right?

Elizabeth | I think it's smart. I think if you get stuck, I mean, that's why you have coaches, and you have people that you've talked to, like, even my community, the extension of my community is oftentimes talking through a hard situation and saying, Okay, this is what I'm thinking, what's your perspective, there's so much like value in that, and you learn so much more, and you learn quicker. So I think, you know, I had to do an article brides magazine: "Should couples, you know, go to counseling, even if things are going well?" and I don't, I think that's when you should be in counseling. I think people should kind of preempt it before things go, you know, the other way. I mean, I know often we go to deal with things, when there's so much pain, we have to deal with it. But I think if you could preempt things that you just know, there's gaps there, you know, are hard conversations to have, by putting someone in the middle who can help you mediate it, I think it just saves you a lot of angst in the long run.

Robin | Definitely. There is another Elizabeth quote, which I love, I you have so many! You say "Each relationship can reach a breaking point, which can lead to a breakup or a break through." And we do have a community question that came in. And this person is saying, "I feel like my relationship has reached its natural end. But I cannot bring myself to actually end it. I feel like I can't grow. But I still have so much love for my partner help."

Elizabeth | So I think sometimes, that's a hard one. And I you know, I again, applaud this person for like saying, "Look, I love my partner. But I just don't know if I can keep doing this." I think there's a thing called "relationship under construction". Like I think there's moments where it could feel like it's broke, but you could just be hitting a difficult period in your relationship. I don't know the history of what you are going through, which is leading you to say," Look, I just I know one piece is the growth, but are there other things? So one of the things I think could be really helpful is to kind of take an audit of your relationship. And you know, how we do a SWOT analysis on things like to figure out where the Strengths and Weaknesses, the Opportunities and Threats are? I think you could do something similar in your relationship, you could kind of look and say, "Okay, these are the good parts, these are the parts that are really giving me angst right now." And really look at it on paper. We've gotten away from writing things down. But as a writer, I, I think there's so much value in it, because when you see things in black and white, they can become a little more crystallized, because sometimes things aren't as bad as we think they are.

So that would be my first step. Like kind of just assessing where you are, why you feel like you don't have the growth and then like, is there ways to inform your partner of these things, and can you know, is there still are you totally at a breaking point? Because you still say you have love for them, and maybe that involves having a counselor involved, you know, to talk through some of these things. Now, if you look at that list, and it's very lopsided, because I think sometimes we have, you know, I have a lot of people too, that come to me that have been in it a long time, like 20, 30 years, I say, as long time these days, right? My parents really did the long time. But 20, 30 years they're in and it's like, like, "I'm bored". Just, "This is not fun anymore."

And you know, there is some boredom in relationships, like, boredom is actually a sign of consistency and stability. But boredom doesn't feel good, because we as humans, are always trying to look for what we don't like. So that's why I think is very important to do this assessment to figure out: Okay, is this really broken? First of all, can it be fixed? Because you're saying you still love this person. Now, if he can't, and there's just absolute, you know, obstacles that you can't overcome, your partner's not willing to work with you. That's another thing, then you have to think about it from that perspective.

But I do believe that's why I use that term relationship under construction, because I think that's where you have to reinvent, and you have to like, you have to figure it out, and in a relationship you learn, sometimes one person grows faster than the other. Sometimes, one person is more developed and mature in one area that another person isn't. So sometimes it's you helping your partner to get there, because that's part of a relationship. So I would just say assess, you know, figure it out, visually write it down, and really weigh it out. But realize that like if you are in a relationship, where you're like, I always say the 80th percentile, because that's like a "B". If you're in a "B" relationship, you're doing fantastic because you're—it's very difficult to find, you're never gonna find really 100% of what you want. There'll always be something. But at the same time, if it's really just something where you just feel like "I can't get over this hurdle" you have you may have to make some decisions.

And just because you make a decision to end the relationship, it doesn't mean you don't love that person. I actually think that's a sign of mature love. Because there are many relationships that end Like, I hate this person, and I'm like, "But you married them or you're with them for this time period there, there was something you loved about them." I think mature love recognize there is love, but that love may be diminished because of some things that happened or that love may have shifted. But when you go to such an extreme of the opposite of love, you may have not ever really loved that person, because I don't think love is something that's like, you know, temperamental, like it's here today and it's gone tomorrow.

Robin | I think we share I think we share that same perspective, Elizabeth, it's something that I've told my children over and over again, and I live it. Is, with my former husband, it's like, I still love him. Of course I do! I loved him from the day we decided to be together, and it changed form, that's for sure. It changed from husband wife relationship, love to a love that I have for a dear friend, right, and the father of my children, my goodness. So...

Elizabeth | Love evolves, it changes. I think it grows and matures, it looks different. But I think when it's true love, it's there. I mean, it's a it's a very static thing.

Robin | Yeah. You know, I really liked that point you made of that perspective of "relationship construction". And it's possible that, like you said, like stagnation is stability. It could be that this like, this relationship needs a remodel, like a renovation. And that's okay, right. Because it's like it's been, I don't know how long it's been. But if it's been many years, it's like, "Okay, it's time to reinvent this relationship, right?" It may be a time to go, or it may be that maybe she's feeling or he's feeling like I just maybe she or he needs to do something different in their own self, to feel like they're growing.

I remember when I was interviewing Lori Gottlieb, and for one of our summit, last summits: and she did say this, though, because she is a couples therapist, she said, it may be that the couples would come in, and the one person would say like, "This is where I'm at, and I need you to be investing in your growth as well." And there was times when that person's like, "No, like, I don't, I don't feel like I want to change, I don't want to grow". Well, then what do you do, then? You put it out there that that's something you need and you're growing and changing and learning, and if your partners don't invest in the same way? That's a hard one, right?

Elizabeth | That's a hard one. That's a hard one. Yeah. But that's where you make a different decision. It just depends on what's more important. Is it like the other things that work? And that maybe there's just one or two things? And that growth is a piece of it? And I'm like— it just depends on where you rank it.

Robin | Yeah. So something that I've watched during your when you're, you've watched some videos of you working with couples, and you're helping them with conflict management, conflict resolution. And one of your quotes is you and this is such a great perspective: "You're fighting the problem, not each other."

Elizabeth | Yes, yes!

Robin | This is a big one. This is like—when I watched that I was like, right? Oh! Just trying to remember that when you're in a conflict with with your partner, how difficult that can be. But it's like the problem is what you are fighting. It doesn't have to be the argument.

Elizabeth | The argument is never—I always feel like the argument's not about the argument. Many times the argument is about what has happened to pre-date the argument. So it's about like, if someone isn't responsive to you. It's about a history of someone that used to be responsive to you, that was important to you, and you're ticked off about it. So now it is in your relationship, and it shows up, it could be that they weren't responsive to wash the dishes, and you just, you blow up because you're like, and they're like, we're just about dishes here. But he's like, he's like, way deeper than that.

So I think not focusing on the history of like, how you fight, how you disagree, understand people's way of disagreeing and how people resolve through is like, so huge for couples and being you know, newly remarried, I had to learn that, like, I'm definitely the person in relationship is like, "I want a solution now". And yeah, and I think a lot of us, right. It's usually one party's like that, like, "Let's talk about this now"

Robin | And the other person is like, "I don't want to talk about it right now" and it's like, "What do you mean you don't wanna talk about it?"

Elizabeth | So I had to learn that, oh, my husband's a processor. So there's times I had to, you know, I was still want to engage, because I want to bring it to resolution. And he'd be like, "I don't want to have this conversation right now". So I had to find like the, you know, both of us a balance and I realized that, you know, some of this is timing, and like how I'm having the communication with him. Some of it is like telling him how I feel and just let me go, which is hard for someone who wants an response right then and there. But I found it, it's worked really well for us because like, he has time to process it. You know, he comes back in the moment like, "Hey, I thought about this", "Oh my god, this is great". We're communicating in a way that that shows like compromise, we're dealing with the issue are now attacking each other.

So I think like sometimes even when someone's upset, it's okay. Disengage. Because it's true. When you're upset, it could just keep revving and revving up. And then that could lead to words that are said that that you really didn't feel but that don't come out that the right way that you can't take back. So sometimes it's okay to pull back gives people space revisited, go go to places where it's maybe easier to have that conversation, where it puts a little pressure on you to stay mature, you know, like at a restaurant or something. So, so I think, you know, it's all kind of like, ways to communicate with your partner. And I think the arguments just have to sometimes because we're not understanding each other style of receiving the information, and sometimes how we say something gets misinterpreted, maybe purposefully, purposefully, or because of history of how they've heard something similar before set to them, so in their mind, they hear something totally different on what you're saying. So there's so much to the argument piece. And in that couple of which is very interesting.

I think I know what you're talking about, like, when we dug into it, there was a history of like his, I think, like his stepdad was very harsh on him. So whenever his wife talked to him in a certain tone, or she made demands, he's like, "I gotta stand up for myself", he went right into this, like, defence position. So, it really wasn't about the argument or the discussion they were having, it was about the history of how he self protected. And I just, I just thought that was pretty interesting.

Robin | Yeah, he went into his child-mind, right? I think, is a natural place for us to go rather than reacting from a mature adult. But it's that that is something that's biologically wired. So it's just learning that about ourselves, too, right?

Elizabeth | Yeah. And I have a great example of that. So I'm always trying to be a better parent, like always trying to learn, because I think parenting is a lifelong journey, right with your children as they grow, go through different stages. And you know, one of the things I uncovered recently is, you know, we always wonder: why do teens like hyper-respond? Like, it's like, they have no control over their emotions, like we already know, they're underdeveloped, they're going through puberty, we know these normal things, but there's really a science behind it.

Their limbic system is not developed, like ours is we we've had more experiences, so we kind of know: "Okay, if I don't do this, or this doesn't work out, it'll be okay, because I've been through this experience 22 times". But for a teen, they were saying, like, their limbic response is so intense, it's like three times more intense, like an adult response would be. So that's why when your teen is like flinging something on the floor, or like, totally having a meltdown over something that you're like, "Why are you having a meltdown over this?" I compare this to relationships to say that I think within a relationship, there are different development levels.

So, some people might be really great emotionally, some people might be really great financially, some people might be really great, like, on their sexual maturity, some people in their spiritual maturity, their personal development, like that lady just talking about growing, she might be an amazing achiever, but her husband may not have that particular thing. And I think we have to give grace to our partners, like we would our teens or our children, who we tend to be sometimes more patient with, right than our partners? Because a lot of times well they're grown, I'm not gonna deal with that. But no, they're grown, but there's still gaps. And sometimes by being a stabilizer and modeling, you know, what it should look like you can help each other to fill in some of those gaps. So, I thought I saw that and I was like, "Wow, that's so like, interesting but so relatable to relationships, too."

Robin | It really is giving, giving your partner the grace that you would give your child.

Elizabeth | Yep. It's like no, people are like, "No, I'm not doing that!"

Robin | We have time for one more community question. The time goes by so fast when we're talking about all this fun stuff.

Elizabeth | I love this stuff. You and I could talk about this forever.

Robin | Oh, we definitely could! So this question is, "I am remarried. My husband and I have an eight month old son, my two daughters from my first marriage, 15 and 12 are having a very hard time accepting my new partner. They're rude, dismissive, mean, and disrespectful towards him. I have had so many discussions with him being kind and respectful. Explaining that you do not have to like him, but they must treat him kindly. I have grounded them, taken away their phones, and had many heart-to-hearts. I want my daughters and husband to be happy, and want this for all of us, of course. It's a very difficult living situation right now. I would love your ideas on how we can bring more peace and acceptance into our home.

Elizabeth | So mom, I you know, huge shout out to you because I know that this is tough. So, when you have a blended family that comes together, you know, oftentimes like the two people who are come together the wife and the husband or the Husband and husband, wife and wife, you know, they have they love each other. They've gone through this process and they're like, "I want to be in this relationship" but sometimes kids, they just are gone through a totally different group of emotions for lots of different reasons. I don't know your entire, you know, history, but in their minds, they could be thinking "I don't want to extend this person, I have a dad, I would prefer my biological dad to being with you".

I think you're doing the right things, you you're being consistent with telling them the behavior you want them to see, and you are imposing consequences, you know, for when they don't do that behavior. They are teens, they will be there for about another six or seven years, and they'll be off to college, I think what was 12, one was 15, three and six years. One of the things I would suggest you do, as you're having these meetings, that you include your husband, in these meeting. I don't know if these are one off meetings when you're talking to the girls, you know, by yourself, but I think by including your husband, you show partnership, you show unity, and you you let them know that "We're a team, we're family, we're working together, we're going to hash this out". And it's going to be some growing pains.

I mean, they in in the blended family, like I said, kids sometimes may have been in situations where parents dated people before they married the person they married, so they too, get attached and then when it doesn't work out, they get disappointed. So there's not just the biological parent thing, but even being disappointed on the you know, in other scenarios, maybe that parent has presented other people to them. And so sometimes kids, I've learned this from my my bonus daughter, she told me, she said "At first, I didn't want to give you a shot, I was just like, I'm going to be different to you." And it was hard, because I want it to mother on her, and I want it to respect the relationship she had with her mother. So, I think you still have to honor the relationship they have with their dad, and remind them that this is their their bonus dad you know you this is your partner, they will respect him, but at the same time, include them in these discussions to talk about what that looks like continue to do that, that includes your husband, so it's the full circle moment, and don't give up. Because you know, kids can be won over over time, it may not happen today, it might not happen in three months, I wish I could give you like a quick solution, ut it doesn't, it's just not like that. You got to think about too, that this is a big change for them, and if for most of us, whenever we have any big change, it takes us like six months to a year to adjust to it. So it's still fresh, give it time, but just keep up the effort and make sure your husband's a part of that conversation as well.

Robin | Yeah, that's beautiful. So Elizabeth, you have written a book, and it's called "Love You and He Will Too: The Smart Woman's Roadmap to Happy, Healthy Relationships", and I bought a copy, it was a while ago, I'm still waiting for it to come from Amazon. I'm like, where is it? I don't know!

Elizabeth | If you give me your address I'll drop on in the mail for you!

Robin | No no, it's okay, I'm gonna I'll wait for my copy that I purchased, but can you tell us about your book and I also would love to hear more about your practice, and I know you do coaching and people can buy sessions with you, which I think would be invaluable. So please share a little bit about both with us.

Elizabeth | Yeah, so I have a book and you know, I have show it I hope you guys to see it, you know the "Love You and He Will Too". And you know really, again, I am big on self love and self accountability, and the book takes you through those steps of what that looks like. And I do believe that once you know your stuff it's much easier to know what you would, you know, what you want in your life, you know what's good for you what's not good for you.

And it doesn't mean like you don't get some of the things that aren't good for you, but I think once you have that self awareness, you learn to rotate yourself out of those situations quicker.

And if you want to learn more about me, you can visit my website elizabethoverstreet.com. I'm doing a masterclass actually on "Five Reasons You Attract the Wrong People". So like if you guys want to sign up for that it'll give you access to me on a monthly basis, you can ask questions during that masterclass, we'll talk about some of the ways to break patterns.

And then just as far as my coaching, I coach singles and individuals so I help people along the journey. So, I've helped a lot of people get married. I helped a lot of people figure out like what relationship dynamic works for them. I've helped a lot of people improve their self-esteem and go off and do some amazing things.

I'm very proud of my clients, the things they do, they come back to me to share updates. I also help couples, couples often come to me for communication issues with infidelity, you know, other challenges or hurdles that come up in the relationship and are just trying to figure it out and they meet an objective person now walk them through and help them roadmap what that looks like so I really, I can't stop talking, I feel like!

I really enjoy the work I do with others. It's very, it's very rewarding and I just want people to get to like that healthy, rewarding relationship that's really important to me. So that's a lot of the focus of my practice, whether it's with yourself or others, or both.

Robin | Well, I've just so enjoyed our hour together, Elizabeth, and every time I talk to you, I feel like I learned so much I really do is you're just such an easy, relatable person to talk to with a lot of wisdom. So you're, like you said, you're working your dharma. Like, this is your calling and I know you're you're helping so many people. But it's practical ways to be more aware and accountable and also strategic. Like, you know the fact that you know, this is not a such a scary word, its not just for business, right? Like you can have strategies in love to be better in relationships. And we can all do that, right?

Elizabeth | Yeah, I just felt like, you know, strategy. You know, when we come when it comes to relationships, we kind of assume things will fall in place, and we just kind of wing it. But I do think you can still use your strategic side of your mind to think of different ways to solve through relationship challenges, different angles, different ways to look at things, practical ways. But like ensuring that you're always, you know, looking at more than one way to work through something to make that relationship work. That's where the strategy comes from. And I think when you're intentional, just like we, I just feel like when my clients like even after COVID, people are just much more intentional about dating who they will want in their space and that's good. So now creating strategy around it, I think it makes you even more powerful as you engage in the practice of dating and determine who you want to be in a relationship with.

Robin | Wonderful, thank you for your time today, Elizabeth and I just felt so happy to speak with you. We'll be in touch.

Elizabeth | Thanks again for having me on.

Robin | Take care!

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The Real Love Ready Podcast is recorded and edited by Anna Lafreniere transcriptions I otter.ai and edited by Anna Lafreniere. We, at Real Love Ready, acknowledge and express gratitude for the Coast Salish people, the stewards of the land on which we work in play, and encourage everyone listening could take a moment to acknowledge and express gratitude for those that have stewarded and continue to steward the land that you live on as well.